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  #9  
Old 03-20-2010, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by omguthrie View Post
Excellent! Too bad we can't send these 2 articles to all the breeders out there!

Thanks for the links Brodysmom!
If only it were a perfect world! LOL!
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2010, 04:02 PM
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Good text. I dont like it when breeders , in special for the small breeds , sell them before 12 weeks old, it sounds to me, they are breed to sell. There are so many more reasons why a good breeder should not do this. Me i prefer to keep them longer, and dont care what other peoples say, because i am and stay the whole life of the dog responsible for what i breed and raise. A good breeder love to socialize them. A bad breeder dont, so the puppies have to leave home eary as possible .That makes the differents.
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  #11  
Old 03-22-2010, 05:03 PM
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I don't want to, but I will play a bit of devil's advocate...

I see the points the author is making, but it sounds to me like the puppies are being nursed far too long in this scenario.

Not only does nursing for too long put the puppy at risk for obesity later in life, but it makes it more difficult for the puppy to be vaccinated properly. A puppy, no matter the breed, should be weaned by 6 weeks!

I have gotten an older puppy, and I will never do that again.

Crucial socialization is done by a good breeder, yes. BUT socialization needed VARIES by OWNER and LIFESTYLE. A breeder can only do so much if she's got a littler of 4-6. She can't just happen to have a gamut of men in hats, little black children, old ladies with canes and middle aged men with beards on hand to parade her puppies around. That's just illogical. Exposure and socialization is a full time job with one puppy, let alone 4 or 5.

Chihuahua puppies should be fully weaned by 6 weeks. By 7 weeks they should be eating solid food on their own. Well bred, healthy dogs don't have a problem with this. The breeder that I work with breeds for health and temperament first and foremost, followed by conformation and breed standard (she breeds to improve the breed, but that doesn't just mean a short muzzle or a perfectly curled tail, it means a healthy dog, too, and I agree with her argument that especially when it comes to a family pet, that is essential =)), and has had less than 5% mortality rate in her pups when the average for chihuahuas is around 30%. She lets her pups go at 8 weeks if they are eating well and has never had a problem.


I kind of think that there could be something sketchy going on here. Is the breeder really selling dogs that are 8 weeks or even younger but saying they are older to charge higher prices for a dog that will supposedly be small? I'm not sure, I just feel like I don't trust what is essentially being communicated here. I've also seen 8 week maltese and they have teeth. They also are generally closer to 2.5 lbs at 8 weeks, not 1 lb 9 oz (a chi puppy this weight at 8 weeks is charting to only be a 4.5 lb adult). If the same general chart applies to Maltese, she is breeding for the VERY minimum of the maltese standard, which is 4-7 lbs.

An 8 week old puppy with no teeth and still nursing? I have handled 5-6 week chihuahuas regularly and HOLY COW, they have teeth, TRUST ME! Sharp, wicked little puppy teeth.

Small breed dogs are the fastest to develop...why should they stay with their dam longer, then?
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Last edited by flippedstars; 03-22-2010 at 05:12 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-22-2010, 06:48 PM
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As a Maltese owner I agree 100%. My first Maltese was 9 weeks when I got her. She came to me with her biting instinct since she was not with her mom or sibling long enough to curb that habit. They also go into their fear imprint period between 8-11 weeks. She is afraid of loud noises and thunder storms. My others I got as older pups and you can notice the difference.
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  #13  
Old 03-22-2010, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flippedstars View Post
I don't want to, but I will play a bit of devil's advocate...

I see the points the author is making, but it sounds to me like the puppies are being nursed far too long in this scenario.

Not only does nursing for too long put the puppy at risk for obesity later in life, but it makes it more difficult for the puppy to be vaccinated properly. A puppy, no matter the breed, should be weaned by 6 weeks!

I have gotten an older puppy, and I will never do that again.

Crucial socialization is done by a good breeder, yes. BUT socialization needed VARIES by OWNER and LIFESTYLE. A breeder can only do so much if she's got a littler of 4-6. She can't just happen to have a gamut of men in hats, little black children, old ladies with canes and middle aged men with beards on hand to parade her puppies around. That's just illogical. Exposure and socialization is a full time job with one puppy, let alone 4 or 5.

Chihuahua puppies should be fully weaned by 6 weeks. By 7 weeks they should be eating solid food on their own. Well bred, healthy dogs don't have a problem with this. The breeder that I work with breeds for health and temperament first and foremost, followed by conformation and breed standard (she breeds to improve the breed, but that doesn't just mean a short muzzle or a perfectly curled tail, it means a healthy dog, too, and I agree with her argument that especially when it comes to a family pet, that is essential =)), and has had less than 5% mortality rate in her pups when the average for chihuahuas is around 30%. She lets her pups go at 8 weeks if they are eating well and has never had a problem.


I kind of think that there could be something sketchy going on here. Is the breeder really selling dogs that are 8 weeks or even younger but saying they are older to charge higher prices for a dog that will supposedly be small? I'm not sure, I just feel like I don't trust what is essentially being communicated here. I've also seen 8 week maltese and they have teeth. They also are generally closer to 2.5 lbs at 8 weeks, not 1 lb 9 oz (a chi puppy this weight at 8 weeks is charting to only be a 4.5 lb adult). If the same general chart applies to Maltese, she is breeding for the VERY minimum of the maltese standard, which is 4-7 lbs.

An 8 week old puppy with no teeth and still nursing? I have handled 5-6 week chihuahuas regularly and HOLY COW, they have teeth, TRUST ME! Sharp, wicked little puppy teeth.

Small breed dogs are the fastest to develop...why should they stay with their dam longer, then?
Well i can tell you why at least i , and i think many other breeders think that puppies cant leave their home before 12 weeks. And definitly not at 8 weeks !!! OMG.
At first i like to say that its not always the best to vaccinate the babies at such a young age, if there are little babies born, it is defintly not good to vaccinate them early as that. Rather later than too early, i have seen with my own eyes what that can do with a little baby who is not prepared for that yet.
And thats what I call work for healthy. Let me say that a healthy puppy or baby or adult has nothing to do with the age as they leave home!! A late leaving home puppy can also be healthy for sure ! , Mostly they are in better health condition.
My puppies and with me many other breeders puppies are not weant anymore at 7 weeks, they eat solid food on their own , playing with their littermates and growing up and discover the world!!And if the babies need more time they get more time. Not every puppy is as quick as the books say!. And if they dont need it anymore and its too long, i seperate them .
And we spent every time too socialize them, and ofcourse we cant do it perfect for every lifestyle.

Not every puppy is the same , they will develope different and not every puppy is ready too leave home that age.
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  #14  
Old 03-22-2010, 07:40 PM
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Many new puppieowners have this question. That is why we write our explanation short down on our website.
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  #15  
Old 03-22-2010, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmyfurbaby View Post
As a Maltese owner I agree 100%. My first Maltese was 9 weeks when I got her. She came to me with her biting instinct since she was not with her mom or sibling long enough to curb that habit. They also go into their fear imprint period between 8-11 weeks. She is afraid of loud noises and thunder storms. My others I got as older pups and you can notice the difference.
All puppies bite. It's our job as owners to teach them to not bite.

So many people have gotten their chis at 8 weeks and you never hear of problems. So, if I can purchase a happy healthy puppy at 8 weeks or 12, and my vet says 8 is preferable, and I desire to socialize the pup myself and I can care for it properly, I think it becomes a decision of personal choice, not something that shouldn't be done...just my 2 cents =)
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  #16  
Old 03-22-2010, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anouska View Post
Well i can tell you why at least i , and i think many other breeders think that puppies cant leave their home before 12 weeks. And definitly not at 8 weeks !!! OMG.
At first i like to say that its not always the best to vaccinate the babies at such a young age, if there are little babies born, it is defintly not good to vaccinate them early as that. Rather later than too early, i have seen with my own eyes what that can do with a little baby who is not prepared for that yet.
And thats what I call work for healthy. Let me say that a healthy puppy or baby or adult has nothing to do with the age as they leave home!! A late leaving home puppy can also be healthy for sure ! , Mostly they are in better health condition.
My puppies and with me many other breeders puppies are not weant anymore at 7 weeks, they eat solid food on their own , playing with their littermates and growing up and discover the world!!And if the babies need more time they get more time. Not every puppy is as quick as the books say!. And if they dont need it anymore and its too long, i seperate them .
And we spent every time too socialize them, and ofcourse we cant do it perfect for every lifestyle.

Not every puppy is the same , they will develope different and not every puppy is ready too leave home that age.
Exactly. Not every puppy is the same. I believe some are ready at 8 weeks, and if they are, why hold on to them for no reason? Sure babies develop differently, but you said it yourself... "Let me say that a healthy puppy or baby or adult has nothing to do with the age as they leave home!!". Rather, I think its the condition the pup is in. At 8 weeks, a well bred, bigger, well cared for strong pup shouldn't be held until 12 weeks just because our breed has some smaller puppies that need extra care.

On rather later than too early, it doesn't seem that "early" causes damage, but too late can result in nastiness such as Parvo or distemper or a dead puppy. I'd rather take the small risk associated with vaccinations that are generally safe at a younger age, than wait and wait, only to have a puppy die. It's all personal opinion. Studies go both ways. People can argue vehemently against the standard tried and true answers, but there are thousands of healthy little chis running around that left their home at 8 weeks for their new home vaccinations included and they stand to reason that the exception should not be argued into a rule.
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Last edited by flippedstars; 03-22-2010 at 09:23 PM.
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