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  #25  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:26 PM
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Precious! I'm in love!!
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  #26  
Old 11-16-2012, 06:28 PM
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She is so beautiful! This thread was very interesting and informative as I didn't know that about Merle's. congrats on your new doggie.
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  #27  
Old 11-16-2012, 06:53 PM
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How well does the AKC track genetics?
Even if she is registered a certain color with them does not necessarily mean that is her genetic make up. They could have generic names like black and tan with white markings to describe a black and tan pinto or a true black and tan with white markings.
In the American quarter horse association the horse can't have white markings over the size of a quarter except for socks and a blaze to be registered. If your horse was bred from 2 pinto horses and comes out solid it can be registered with the American quarter horse association even if it is not a true full blood quarter horse, so long as it fits the requirements.
If you have 2 solid horses that throw a pinto horse it can't be registered even if its parents were registered.

I guess what I think about registries is they throw some generic label onto a color that looks similar to another color even if it is a completely different gene producing the similar looking effect.
So I understand her AKC label, but still wondering the difference between the actual genetics.
Maybe the name for the color is variable between breeds, even if they are displaying the same phenotype. Messy world of genetics woo!
It seems simpler/more organized in horses, even between breeds... Hmm, not the same for dogs?
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  #28  
Old 11-17-2012, 06:17 PM
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she is beautiful...
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  #29  
Old 11-18-2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allycorn View Post
How well does the AKC track genetics?
Even if she is registered a certain color with them does not necessarily mean that is her genetic make up. They could have generic names like black and tan with white markings to describe a black and tan pinto or a true black and tan with white markings.
In the American quarter horse association the horse can't have white markings over the size of a quarter except for socks and a blaze to be registered. If your horse was bred from 2 pinto horses and comes out solid it can be registered with the American quarter horse association even if it is not a true full blood quarter horse, so long as it fits the requirements.
If you have 2 solid horses that throw a pinto horse it can't be registered even if its parents were registered.

I guess what I think about registries is they throw some generic label onto a color that looks similar to another color even if it is a completely different gene producing the similar looking effect.
So I understand her AKC label, but still wondering the difference between the actual genetics.
Maybe the name for the color is variable between breeds, even if they are displaying the same phenotype. Messy world of genetics woo!
It seems simpler/more organized in horses, even between breeds... Hmm, not the same for dogs?
I don't really understand your question, but I hope this works. The one way to know your dogs color is not only by looking at the coat, but to also look at the pigment in the dogs nose and eyes. Dog Coat Colour Genetics

I hope not to start a problem but some have been saying that merle is an unhealthy dog. That can be very true, but depending if the dog is heterozygous or homozygous. There has been no record of a blind heterozygous merle, there hasn't even been a study conducted on this controversy. There has been a record of a merle heterozygous deaf in only one ear. Deafness in chihuahuas is not only caused by merles, the deafness is caused by white pigment in the ear. Piebald and white chihuahuas are prone to deafness as much heterozygous merle, which is 25% with non-merle and merle if there is white pigment over the ear. To me and all the research I've done, which is almost 5 years. Heterozygous merles are prone to health problems just as much as non-merle chihuahuas. I also believe that the merle coat was mixed into the chihuahua by a different breed years ago, as the merle gene in all the breeds are the same genetic sequence. I do not support homozygous breeding.
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  #30  
Old 11-18-2012, 05:03 PM
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"If your horse was bred from 2 pinto horses and comes out solid it can be registered with the American quarter horse association even if it is not a true full blood quarter horse, so long as it fits the requirements."
Wanted to clear this up real quick first. This is not dog related, however still incorrect. If your horse who was bred from PAINT (paint and pinto are two seperate associations) parents who descent from traceable QUARTER HORSE lineage, your horse can be registered AQHA, so long as it meets the requirements. Easier explained, so you have a horse whos parents were both quarter horses, but the foal has a large belly splash, making it inelligible to be registered AQHA, it can be registered APHA. If you then breed it, and its foal actually came out without the extra white markings, that foal could be registered AQHA since by lineage it truly is quarter horse. They dont register solid apha registered as quarter horses unless they come from quarter horse lines. Hope that makes sense.

Back on subject with merles... She is a black and tan merle with white markings. AKC actually does not recognize "black tri" its just a common term people call black and tan dogs with flashy white markings. They are registered as black and tan with white markings.

Merles do not have any more health problems than any other chihuahua, UNLESS the breeder bred two merles together which gives a chance of a double merle offspring, which yes, could possibly be deaf or blind. Generally if someone owns a merle dog and breeds, they know not to breed two merles together, and you can visually tell a double merle is a double merle. Merle chihuahuas have been around for quite some time, much longer than recognized by akc. Documents - Merle Chihuahuas

I dont breed merles, however we do have one as a pet. Hope I could help clear a few things up.
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  #31  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:05 PM
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Uh right, that's exactly what I said, I am not incorrect, but perhaps have worded my question confusingly.

Pinto is not a breed but a color pattern, just like solid isn't a breed but is a color pattern
I'm not saying you can take any 2 breeds of horse that are pinto, get a solid horse and its a registrable QH. They have to fit the registration requirements still obviously (traceable between AQHA OR APHA).

If you horse was bred from 2 pinto horses (thus registered paint, because they still have to fit the requirements, and be QH traceable) the foal could be solid and registered QH.
However because it comes from horses with the pinto characteristic it is technically not full blood, though can still be registered QH, because it fits the requirements of color characteristic and lineage.


I guess what I'm wondering about the black and tan thing... little more clearly explained.
Can you have a white dog with black and tan patches on it, versus a black and tan dog with white patches on it? What is the difference between these to the AKC, and what is the difference between these genetically speaking?
To me it seems one is like the paint horse, and the other is like the QH with white socks.

I don't really care if the AKC doesn't think tri color is a "real" thing, because genetically it could be, and I am more interested in the real genetics than the labels we are putting on them (the QH & paint example being an example of the labels registries put on their appearance)

Maybe that is more clear, maybe it still isn't. After this post I can't say it even matters anymore. Oh well :)
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  #32  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:21 PM
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Not to be arguementative, but Pinto actually is a breed. There is the American Paint Horse Association, and also the Pinto Horse Association of America. American Paint horse association are stock horses by lineage. The pinto registry registers different breeds of horses that meet the color lineage (some miniatures, quarter horses, paints, warmbloods, some walking horses, etc.) They are a color breed, and not a lineage breed. A lot of people who show miniatures have their horses dual registered as pinto.

Anyway, yes, there is a difference between a black and tan dog with white markings and a mostly white dog with black and tan markings. The first is named exactly that, black and tan with white markings. Like a quarter horse, the markings arent genetic. You can get a star from a horse with a blaze, etc. The markings arent specifically coming from the parents. The second is a Black and Tan spotted on white. The spotted on white is genetic, and is passed onto offspring.
Hope that makes sense, if not, the black and tan with white markings is your quarter horse with socks and a blaze, the black and tan spotted on white is your tovero paint.
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