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  #1  
Old 04-25-2010, 01:34 PM
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Default What can help her become better?

I take Layla to ring craft as i would like to enter her in companion dog shows. She has been going since July 2009 but turns into a totally different dog. She shakes, refuses to walk one way down the mat & doesnt really like being on the table.

She used to be a totally confident little pup when we got her in march 2009 but then it all changed when she had a bad accident which resulted in her staying in the vets for 3 days.

People at ring craft say just to keep bringing her and she will get used to it but its been 10 months and nothing has changed much. So i thought i would come on here to see what yous thought - should i give up or not?

Thanks in advance
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:39 PM
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If it was me I'd be thinking do I do what I want to do or what is best for my dog. If I was taking Jake and he was displaying what you describe even after 10 moinths then I would stop.

Layla is obvious not happy and feels scared and to be honest you have tried you rbest for 10 months and she is still not happy.

I can't say what you should do but how about thinking it this way.

If it was you that was being asked to do something that scared you or you just did not enjoy doing the activity, what would you want to do.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deme View Post
If it was me I'd be thinking do I do what I want to do or what is best for my dog. If I was taking Jake and he was displaying what you describe even after 10 moinths then I would stop.

Layla is obvious not happy and feels scared and to be honest you have tried you rbest for 10 months and she is still not happy.

I can't say what you should do but how about thinking it this way.

If it was you that was being asked to do something that scared you or you just did not enjoy doing the activity, what would you want to do.
I was thinking maybe to just give up but thought i would ask here just incase. ummm, i think i will probally just give up because i am hoping to get a new show pup soon.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:59 PM
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If she had her accident in Aug and she's only been shown since July, she's never really had any positive show experiences. That's going to be difficult if not impossible to correct. The question becomes, how is she in other outings? Is she only at home or does she get out all the time? If the only time she's out is when she's showing, this isn't going to correct. If she's this way every time she leaves home, stop showing her and allow her to be at home, where she's happy. If she's happy, totally confident, and up everywhere but the ring, then it can be retrained but will be a long hard road to get there and you have to ask yourself why you want to do it. Not every dog enjoys showing. I call those backyard champions. Have a couple myself. For me, there are a lot of factors that I consider when I'm deciding if I want to keep at it or retire the dog. If the answers to your question justify showing her, then keep taking her to the shows, but stop showing her. She's got to learn that these are fun places and there's way more that needs to be done before she's ever in the ring again. If you decide to keep at it, PM me and I'll try to give you some pointers on what you can try to get it fun....then the next steps before entering her again.

HTH....we can't make the decision for you but we'll try to support whatever decision you make. Good luck with her and your new show pup. It takes a lot of time and dedication to properly train a dog for the ring. Hard work and constant daily training pays off...and sometimes that's easier with two but others times, it doubles the demand on your energies. Another thing to consider.
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiMarChis View Post
If she had her accident in Aug and she's only been shown since July, she's never really had any positive show experiences. That's going to be difficult if not impossible to correct. The question becomes, how is she in other outings? Is she only at home or does she get out all the time? If the only time she's out is when she's showing, this isn't going to correct. If she's this way every time she leaves home, stop showing her and allow her to be at home, where she's happy. If she's happy, totally confident, and up everywhere but the ring, then it can be retrained but will be a long hard road to get there and you have to ask yourself why you want to do it. Not every dog enjoys showing. I call those backyard champions. Have a couple myself. For me, there are a lot of factors that I consider when I'm deciding if I want to keep at it or retire the dog. If the answers to your question justify showing her, then keep taking her to the shows, but stop showing her. She's got to learn that these are fun places and there's way more that needs to be done before she's ever in the ring again. If you decide to keep at it, PM me and I'll try to give you some pointers on what you can try to get it fun....then the next steps before entering her again.

HTH....we can't make the decision for you but we'll try to support whatever decision you make. Good luck with her and your new show pup. It takes a lot of time and dedication to properly train a dog for the ring. Hard work and constant daily training pays off...and sometimes that's easier with two but others times, it doubles the demand on your energies. Another thing to consider.
She had her accident at the beginning of may and we gave her time to become her normal self and recover before starting ring craft.

She gets out for a walk everyday. 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours per day and she acts the same on her walks as she does at home.
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Old 04-25-2010, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JRZL View Post
She had her accident at the beginning of may and we gave her time to become her normal self and recover before starting ring craft.

She gets out for a walk everyday. 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours per day and she acts the same on her walks as she does at home.
Well, that's worse, actually. I was counting back 10 months. So not one positive thing from showing, which atleast she would have had if she had shown prior to her accident. Changes the senerio a bit.

Long walks daily are not what I'm talking about. I was asking about her show training. Three plus times per week, she should be going to various places, such as pet stores, dog parks, ballgames, nursing homes, anyplace that will allow dogs, that has lots of people, noises, bangs, booms, children screaming, people talking/yelling, shelves, tables, stacks of stuff to walk around and be placed on, etc., etc. She should be free stacking and baiting for people in all these locations. She should be petted, given treats (that you provide) from strangers, she should be stacked on a table, pile of dog food, whatever, and petted by strangers, she should have her bite shown to those same people while she's stacked, etc. etc. This is all basic show training.

Are you doing any of this? Or is walks around the neighborhood it? If her walks are all she's getting, that's the problem. She's not been socialized to the degree that she needs to be in order to be confident in a show environment. Just FYI, these are the types of things you need to do if you try to rehab her...not entering the shows, but doing all the homework first and then taking her to the shows and ringside and making it a positive experience with lots of treats and praise. What does her breeder say about all this? I get the impression you've never shown before. The breeder should have given you instructions on how to train the dog and what needs to be done ensure that a show quality dog can actually finish. If they are taken home and treated as pets, they will become pets and not finish. I'm not using pet as a bad term, because my show dogs are my pets too, but the attitude is different in the dog that gets the "look at me" parade attitude and the one that stays home and gets doted on. The degree of socialization, exposure to new, sometimes frightening things, and people, and training is way more intense for a show dog...and it has to start as a puppy, not when they are an adult.

Please understand that the written word doesn't convey tone of voice, so know that I'm saying this in a friendly, trying to be helpful way. You have another pup coming and if the right things aren't done, it won't show either. If you're doing all this and she's still this way, then it's time to keep her home and try with the next one. As a side note, make sure that nothing unpleasant, including shots, are ever done on an exam table at the vet's office. If the vet isn't willing to work with you, then find a new vet. As you are discovering, it can make or break table attitude for showing.

It's so frustrating that one bad experience can turn a great potential into a lovely pet, but it happens frequently. Unfortunately, this may be one of those cases. Does her breeder have any suggestions and/or can they work with her for you to see if this can be turned around. Could be a different handler would make it better for her. Or, and this has worked with several, they stay with the breeder, get the training, and you get her ringside. She'll be so overjoyed to see you that she's full of herself and flashy in the ring. Just a thought....
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  #7  
Old 04-25-2010, 05:07 PM
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I agree with Lisa. Neighborhood walks are nice, but they aren't doing anything to prepare her for showing. It takes a concentrated effort to train a puppy to show and it's more than just socialization. Stacking on a table as well as on the floor is really important. I like to use a mirror in front of the table so you can stack her and set up her up (quickly, the judge doesn't have time to wait) and you can look in the mirror and see what the judge sees. It gives you a new perspective on what she looks like from the side. You can also have someone videotape you taking her down and back and then you can adjust her gait depending on how she looks at different speeds. You should be learning this at your ringcraft classes.

It's also possible that she had her bad experience during a fear period. My mother in laws sheltie had an ex-pen fall on her while at a show and it scared her to death. She would never show again. Sometimes things like that happen and no amount of training will help them get over it.

What advice have you gotten from the people at your ringcraft classes? Are they encouraging you to keep working with her?
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  #8  
Old 04-25-2010, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiMarChis View Post
Well, that's worse, actually. I was counting back 10 months. So not one positive thing from showing, which atleast she would have had if she had shown prior to her accident. Changes the senerio a bit.

Long walks daily are not what I'm talking about. I was asking about her show training. Three plus times per week, she should be going to various places, such as pet stores, dog parks, ballgames, nursing homes, anyplace that will allow dogs, that has lots of people, noises, bangs, booms, children screaming, people talking/yelling, shelves, tables, stacks of stuff to walk around and be placed on, etc., etc. She should be free stacking and baiting for people in all these locations. She should be petted, given treats (that you provide) from strangers, she should be stacked on a table, pile of dog food, whatever, and petted by strangers, she should have her bite shown to those same people while she's stacked, etc. etc. This is all basic show training.

Are you doing any of this? Or is walks around the neighborhood it? If her walks are all she's getting, that's the problem. She's not been socialized to the degree that she needs to be in order to be confident in a show environment. Just FYI, these are the types of things you need to do if you try to rehab her...not entering the shows, but doing all the homework first and then taking her to the shows and ringside and making it a positive experience with lots of treats and praise. What does her breeder say about all this? I get the impression you've never shown before. The breeder should have given you instructions on how to train the dog and what needs to be done ensure that a show quality dog can actually finish. If they are taken home and treated as pets, they will become pets and not finish. I'm not using pet as a bad term, because my show dogs are my pets too, but the attitude is different in the dog that gets the "look at me" parade attitude and the one that stays home and gets doted on. The degree of socialization, exposure to new, sometimes frightening things, and people, and training is way more intense for a show dog...and it has to start as a puppy, not when they are an adult.

Please understand that the written word doesn't convey tone of voice, so know that I'm saying this in a friendly, trying to be helpful way. You have another pup coming and if the right things aren't done, it won't show either. If you're doing all this and she's still this way, then it's time to keep her home and try with the next one. As a side note, make sure that nothing unpleasant, including shots, are ever done on an exam table at the vet's office. If the vet isn't willing to work with you, then find a new vet. As you are discovering, it can make or break table attitude for showing.

It's so frustrating that one bad experience can turn a great potential into a lovely pet, but it happens frequently. Unfortunately, this may be one of those cases. Does her breeder have any suggestions and/or can they work with her for you to see if this can be turned around. Could be a different handler would make it better for her. Or, and this has worked with several, they stay with the breeder, get the training, and you get her ringside. She'll be so overjoyed to see you that she's full of herself and flashy in the ring. Just a thought....
her daily walks are around my neighbour hood and to the beach - my neighbour hood has lots of people walking around as i live close to the town centre (5 min walk) where i often walk her and the beach also gets quite busy. when out on walks lots of people stroke her. when ever i go to the pet shop she comes where she also gets petted alot. she also sometimes - maybe once a week - comes out with me and my friends to different new places. i do all this along with going to ring craft every wednesday night.

yes, she is my first show dog which is why i wanted to start at companion level shows and not conformation shows as i wanted to make sure that i liked showing before getting a dog from a show breeder who sells there dogs to people who are defiantly going to show.
her breeder doesnt show so i didnt get any tips from her

as for someone else handling her, she is worse. if she can see me or see where i went she will try to follow me and try to slip her lead to get to me and if she cant see me she will just sit down and not move one inch. she will also try to get to other people in my family that she can see.


i think i am just going to stop trying with her and hope to find my new pup soon. hopefully from a experienced show breeder who can help me and push me in the right direction on how to train the new pup.
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