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  #1  
Old 09-30-2015, 07:43 PM
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Default Need some major RAW advice from the savy members

So I have been feeding premade RAW for about a year now. I like premade better as I do not trust myself to get the percentages, etc... right.

I have used several different kinds, started with Fresh Pet vital which I had read from Dogs Naturally blogger had too much calcium in it so I stopped feeding that. I then went on to Vital Essentials which I loved but Gidget had a problem digesting the pieces of bone in that so I am now using Answer for the last few months as the bone is more so pulvarized. Ofcourse there are some great differences I have noticed with coat, energy, etc... However I am struggling with gas in a few of my pack and the weird star gazing that Gidget is doing that some have probably read about. Now Chibi is drinking water profusely which is worrisome as he eats RAW and his water intake should be a lot less.

So I read an article about Hyperthyroidism in chicken, turkey necks, etc... and how there is a gland in them that causes this and they are seeing more and more hyperthyroidism in dogs due to RAW feeding. So I called Answers company and ended up talking directly to the lady that creates the diets that is also a micro biologist. I described my poblem with Gidget (this was before Chibi started his thirst issue) and she explained to me that my dogs were so small that they had different dietary needs than larger dogs and that she felt they may do better on the RAW cat food they had over the dog food, the bigger differences being sea salt and lower fat (not that much lower in fat though).

I have asked in a couple of RAW feeding forums about this and they pretty much said no to cat food because of the TAurine which from what I am reading both dogs and cats benefit from Taurine these days. Come to find out both Answers dog and cat food have Taurine in them so not much difference in that.

I asked the lady Jacqueline with Answers about the Taurine and the sea salt and this was her explanation to me....
"Michelle I suggested the cat food for your very small 2lb dog because it is a bit (not much) lower in fat and toy dogs sometimes do better on lower fat diets. All our food dog or cat has taurine. It is naturally occurring in raw meat and like you said good for dogs and cats. Sea salt does not cause the same problems as table salt. Table salt has the naturally occurring minerals in sea salt removed. When you remove those minerals it causes imbalance of water inside and outside cells leading to hypertension and other problems. Sea salt doesn't do that and therefore you don't have to restrict sea salt. In fact the lack of salt in your dog's diet could be causing some of the digestive problems. Salt is required to make bile for digestion. Please give it 14 days before you judge if the new food and milk is right for your pets."


So the Goats milk thing. She also recommended that I feed their goats milk formula by itself to sort of restart the system and Goats milk is supposed to be wonderful with liver disease, etc.. She said in 14 days it should help with the gas and kind of detox the system. My vet does not want me to use anything along with the meds he has given for gas but this is the 2nd kind of meds he has given and it is not working. I am in the air about a JUST Goats milk diet for 30 days as I cannot imagine not getting some sort of solid food. Feeding the Answers for dogs has worried me due to these issues so I have started giving much smaller amounts with canned green tripe and the goats milk right now until I am done with this new batch of turkey and then I need to make a decision on whether I am willing to try cat food or not?

So what are your opinions about Cat food, goats milk, etc... from what I have mentioned above? Should I give it a try or not?

Also I do not use beef as my guys do not seem to do well on beef so outside of the green tripe there is no beef and I am not sure that even counts? And someone said that beef and fish need to be in the protein mix which neither has been in awhile. I had someone tell me the other day they give theirs sardines so they can get the omega 3's they need. I bought a can of bpa free skinless/boneless sardines in olive oil today but a little hesitant on that as well. What are your thoughts on the sardines?
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  #2  
Old 10-01-2015, 01:38 AM
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Okay, let's break this down a bit to make it easier...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshismom View Post
So I have been feeding premade RAW for about a year now. I like premade better as I do not trust myself to get the percentages, etc... right.

I have used several different kinds, started with Fresh Pet vital which I had read from Dogs Naturally blogger had too much calcium in it so I stopped feeding that. I then went on to Vital Essentials which I loved but Gidget had a problem digesting the pieces of bone in that so I am now using Answer for the last few months as the bone is more so pulvarized. Ofcourse there are some great differences I have noticed with coat, energy, etc... However I am struggling with gas in a few of my pack and the weird star gazing that Gidget is doing that some have probably read about. Now Chibi is drinking water profusely which is worrisome as he eats RAW and his water intake should be a lot less.

I have never fed premade, and the Answers brand is new to me, but I looked them up and got some info from their website. I will say this is not a brand that I would be likely to feed to my furkids. They make some bold claims, I am seriously put off by the fact that their formula for cats is based around milk products, when it is widely known that cats are lactose intolerant (yes I know the differences between cow and goats milk... it still throws up red flags for me). Add on top of that that their percentages are off from the widely held standard of 80/10/10 - and the only organs they include are liver and kidney (making up a full 33% of the diet)! I can see where your dogs are likely to develop health problems.

So I read an article about Hyperthyroidism in chicken, turkey necks, etc... and how there is a gland in them that causes this and they are seeing more and more hyperthyroidism in dogs due to RAW feeding. So I called Answers company and ended up talking directly to the lady that creates the diets that is also a micro biologist. I described my poblem with Gidget (this was before Chibi started his thirst issue) and she explained to me that my dogs were so small that they had different dietary needs than larger dogs and that she felt they may do better on the RAW cat food they had over the dog food, the bigger differences being sea salt and lower fat (not that much lower in fat though).
Her reasoning is hooey. Your small dogs systems work the same as any large dog. They are not more cat like just because they are smaller.
I have asked in a couple of RAW feeding forums about this and they pretty much said no to cat food because of the TAurine which from what I am reading both dogs and cats benefit from Taurine these days. Come to find out both Answers dog and cat food have Taurine in them so not much difference in that.
Whoever told you that Taurine is bad for dogs is an idiot. All meat has Taurine in it, especially the heart. Also, Taurine is water soluble, so you can't get too much.
I asked the lady Jacqueline with Answers about the Taurine and the sea salt and this was her explanation to me....
"Michelle I suggested the cat food for your very small 2lb dog because it is a bit (not much) lower in fat and toy dogs sometimes do better on lower fat diets. What?! Fats are the main source of energy from a dogs' diet. Their size has nothing to do with that. All our food dog or cat has taurine. It is naturally occurring in raw meat and like you said good for dogs and cats. Sea salt does not cause the same problems as table salt. Table salt has the naturally occurring minerals in sea salt removed. When you remove those minerals it causes imbalance of water inside and outside cells leading to hypertension and other problems. Sea salt doesn't do that and therefore you don't have to restrict sea salt. In fact the lack of salt in your dog's diet could be causing some of the digestive problems. Salt is required to make bile for digestion. Please give it 14 days before you judge if the new food and milk is right for your pets." Dogs are typically able to meet their mineral needs from strictly a balanced raw diet. The salt here is likely used more as a preservative than dietary necessity.


So the Goats milk thing. She also recommended that I feed their goats milk formula by itself to sort of restart the system and Goats milk is supposed to be wonderful with liver disease, etc.. She said in 14 days it should help with the gas and kind of detox the system. My vet does not want me to use anything along with the meds he has given for gas but this is the 2nd kind of meds he has given and it is not working. I am in the air about a JUST Goats milk diet for 30 days as I cannot imagine not getting some sort of solid food. Feeding the Answers for dogs has worried me due to these issues so I have started giving much smaller amounts with canned green tripe and the goats milk right now until I am done with this new batch of turkey and then I need to make a decision on whether I am willing to try cat food or not?
Wait, she wants you to feed JUST goats milk for 30 days?? That's just asking for diarrhea, right there. Don't get me wrong, I love raw goat milk - I have been studying goats for years, and plan on getting some milk goats as soon as I can get some good land for it - but it is not the miracle cure that this site is trying to make it out to be. It can help with digestive issues, and it is more easily digested than cow milk, and it is a complete diet for an infant goat - but it is not a complete diet for an adult carnivore. As an aside - your canned tripe is not really providing the digestive enzymes that raw green tripe would. It's rather pointless to feed, tbh, as all those enzymes have been cooked away in the canning process.

So what are your opinions about Cat food, goats milk, etc... from what I have mentioned above? Should I give it a try or not?

Personally, I would stay away from this company all together.

Also I do not use beef as my guys do not seem to do well on beef so outside of the green tripe there is no beef and I am not sure that even counts? And someone said that beef and fish need to be in the protein mix which neither has been in awhile. I had someone tell me the other day they give theirs sardines so they can get the omega 3's they need. I bought a can of bpa free skinless/boneless sardines in olive oil today but a little hesitant on that as well. What are your thoughts on the sardines?
A properly balanced raw diet should consist of AT MINIMUM 3 different proteins, and be mostly red meat sources. This doesn't necessarily mean beef - could be venison, lamb, elk, kangaroo, etc. If you want to be as truly close to natural as possible, the majority of their diet would consist of small rodenty creatures like rats, mice and guinea pigs. As to the sardines, most of the beneficial oils are in the skin, and again you have the canning process cooking nutrients away, so you'd be better off buying whole, frozen sardines or other oily fish. A fish oil supplement is also a good alternative.

I hope that helps some - and that it's not too "matter of fact" that it comes off as being short. I can get like that sometimes Let me know if you have any other questions.
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Old 10-01-2015, 02:18 AM
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I agree with Marty. I've tried that Vital and Midgie didn't do well with it at all.
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMS View Post
Okay, let's break this down a bit to make it easier...

A properly balanced raw diet should consist of AT MINIMUM 3 different proteins, and be mostly red meat sources. This doesn't necessarily mean beef - could be venison, lamb, elk, kangaroo, etc. If you want to be as truly close to natural as possible, the majority of their diet would consist of small rodenty creatures like rats, mice and guinea pigs. As to the sardines, most of the beneficial oils are in the skin, and again you have the canning process cooking nutrients away, so you'd be better off buying whole, frozen sardines or other oily fish. A fish oil supplement is also a good alternative.

I hope that helps some - and that it's not too "matter of fact" that it comes off as being short. I can get like that sometimes Let me know if you have any other questions.
Thanks I appreciate you breaking it down and spelling it out for me. I thought something sounded fishy. I will continue the goats milk. I am pretty sure that the canned green tripe I get is RAW, not sure if that makes a difference since it is canned?

What do you think of the Vital Essentials then? That was what they were on for the longest and I did like that food other than the larger bone pieces.
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Old 10-01-2015, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by woodard2009 View Post
I agree with Marty. I've tried that Vital and Midgie didn't do well with it at all.

Martys explanation was on the Answers not Vital, they currently eat Answers and used to eat Vital. Depending on which vital you are talking about the Fresh Pets Vital that you can purchase in Petco is not good in my book either. I have not thought badly of the Vital Essentials though. I only had one do badly on that one.
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Old 10-01-2015, 10:02 PM
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Marty, I was wondering what your thoughts were on a premade RAW that you trust and recommend without having to supplement? I am looking for a whole diet.

Do you like any of the Freeze dried?
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  #7  
Old 10-01-2015, 10:23 PM
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I do like Vital Essentials, personally. Though I have to admit I have only used it as treats - their tripe bits are awesome for training! But if Midgie can't digest it properly, then I would suggest trying others. Every dog is different.

Do you have a preference for dehydrated or fresh? There are many companies that make fresh/frozen mixes that you can buy from if you're looking to go a more "natural" raw. Or would you prefer dehydrated? Are the brands listed the only ones you have tried so far?
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Old 10-01-2015, 10:46 PM
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I have tried Primal Freeze Dried but it just doesnt seem right, LOL! My dogs are always still hungry and I have to give them very little and it seems pricey as it does not last as long.

We have what is called Blue Ridge Beef here that is very reasonable but I hear they are shady about answering questions about where there, meat, etc... comes from :/

Someone mentioned Raw and Ready a bit ago but I have never heard of them.

Honestly I am not sure what the difference between fresh and frozen mixes are? I usually try to buy a frozen complete diet without having to buy different things to make it complete. I am lucky hubby was letting me buy what I was so I have to stay at a reasonable price :/
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