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  #1  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:18 PM
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Default Supplementing raw

Hi, I've asked questions about this before but I'm finding it do confusing! sorry in advance for all the questions!

I'm feeding Ziwipeak at the moment. Mylo is 14 weeks and weighs 3.8lbs. I want to supplement with a raw meal once a day as I hear that because ZP is nutritionally balanced I don't have to worry too much about balancing his meals. So, here are my many questions...

1. How much should I feed him? (he will be on 7g of ZP twice a day, 2/3 of the recommended amount)
2. Can I just start him on it or do I need to start little by little?
3. He's had a few loose stools lately... Should I wait until he's feeling better to start?
4. I've been recommended to give him chicken wing tips. I got some chicken wings for him yesterday...how much of it can I give to him? Just the tip? What exactly is the tip? (sorry!)
5. Can I give him other bones just to chew on?
6. What kinds of stuff can I give to him to vary it? Fish? Organs? Does it matter what I give if it's already balanced.

Sorry again for all the questions and thanks in advance for any help!
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2012, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buildthemskywards View Post
Hi, I've asked questions about this before but I'm finding it do confusing! sorry in advance for all the questions!

I'm feeding Ziwipeak at the moment. Mylo is 14 weeks and weighs 3.8lbs. I want to supplement with a raw meal once a day as I hear that because ZP is nutritionally balanced I don't have to worry too much about balancing his meals. So, here are my many questions...

1. How much should I feed him? (he will be on 7g of ZP twice a day, 2/3 of the recommended amount)
2. Can I just start him on it or do I need to start little by little?
3. He's had a few loose stools lately... Should I wait until he's feeling better to start?
4. I've been recommended to give him chicken wing tips. I got some chicken wings for him yesterday...how much of it can I give to him? Just the tip? What exactly is the tip? (sorry!)
5. Can I give him other bones just to chew on?
6. What kinds of stuff can I give to him to vary it? Fish? Organs? Does it matter what I give if it's already balanced.

Sorry again for all the questions and thanks in advance for any help!
1. You can use a calculator such as this one: Calculate I plugged in his numbers and puppies can eat up to 10% of their weight which would put him at about 4.8 ounces for one meal. This number seems very very high to me. I would start him out at about half that and then increase if needed. Too much food is a very common cause of loose stools.

2. I would just do your one meal of ziwi and then one raw meal later in the day. You could mix them if you want though.

3. I would wait until his stools are normal before starting a new food.

4. Chicken wings are best used for dogs on raw exclusively (not a premade like ziwipeak). I keep them in the freezer for the occasional loose stool as they work great for firming up stools. However, ziwipeak and other premades tend to be heavy on calcium/phosphorus, so I wouldn't give bony meals, that will be too much calcium for a growing puppy.

When using a pre-made with do it yourself raw, you won't need to add bones for the calcium, it's already plentiful in the ziwi. So I would just do meat only meals. Pork, beef, lamb, bison, venison, rabbit, any other meats you can find. Chicken and turkey is fine, but the nutrient profile of red meats is better, so try to keep it heavy on the red meat, light on the chicken.

5. If you want to give recreational type bones, use lamb ribs, pork or beef ribs, the knobby ends of chicken drumsticks, lamb necks are all good. You can use marrow type bones IF your dog is not a power chewer. They are usually not recommended by raw feeders because they can break teeth. However, in a tiny dog, they usually don't have the jaw strength. Use marrow bones at your own risk and discretion.

6. For variety, you can sure add in whatever you want. Most dogs seem to like sardines. Salmon or other oily fish are good as well (smelt). I would wait until he's fully transitioned onto various meats, eating well, and having good stools before introducing organs. But you certainly could add them in occasionally. Same with eggs.
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  #3  
Old 08-13-2012, 10:01 PM
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Thank you so much for taking the time to answer all my questions; I knew you'd be a great source of information. I was wondering about cutting down his meals to twice a day because he often doesn't eat when I first give it to him. He's very good at only eating when hungry. He won't even take a treat if he's full.

Can you get lamb and pork ribs at the butchers? Do they do them without meat on or do you have to buy the ones with meat? Do they tend to be expensive? Are canned sardines ok to feed or only fresh? Do you give raw egg or scramble them? How much is ok to give?

Thanks again for the info
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  #4  
Old 08-14-2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buildthemskywards View Post
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer all my questions; I knew you'd be a great source of information. I was wondering about cutting down his meals to twice a day because he often doesn't eat when I first give it to him. He's very good at only eating when hungry. He won't even take a treat if he's full.

Can you get lamb and pork ribs at the butchers? Do they do them without meat on or do you have to buy the ones with meat? Do they tend to be expensive? Are canned sardines ok to feed or only fresh? Do you give raw egg or scramble them? How much is ok to give?

Thanks again for the info
How often do you feed him now? Twice a day is plenty if he's over 6 months and at least 3 pounds. Sounds like he will be a self regulator and that's a GREAT thing.

I get lamb, beef, and pork ribs at Walmart. But yeah, a butcher would probably have them. Just make sure they aren't enhanced with a salt solution (a LOT of meats are). Keep sodium at 100mg or less per 4 ounce serving.

Get them with meat. Lay out a towel. Let him have the rib. He can eat the meat off and then will work on gnawing off the rest and then scraping the bone with his teeth. He probably won't consume much of the bone and that's fine. If he is acutally eating the bone, don't let him have too much of it as bone is a fiber and he may get constipated. If he moves off the towel, move him back on. He will learn quick that he eats on the towel only and then he won't be dragging stuff through your house.

They aren't expensive at all here. Probably depends on your part of the country or what country you are in!

Fresh sardines are best. But you can do canned if you want. Get the ones canned in water. They do have sodium so drain the can and then rinse them a little (careful, they are fragile) before you give them. If I do a can or sardines, there are usually 3 in a can. One sardine is a meal. So freeze the other 2 for a later meal. Some dogs don't like fish. It's not a 'must have' in the diet, more for variety and omega 3's.

An egg is a meal. You can give the shell too. Raw eggs are best for experienced eaters as they can cause loose stools. You can scramble lightly if you want, but many dogs love them raw.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:29 PM
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Melissa, I see you are in the UK. Most UK people are getting GREAT meats from their butchers there. You may have to network with other raw feeders in your area to find where the good deals are.

Here is a list of raw food suppliers in the UK. Some of these are pre-mades (already balanced raw minces) and some of them also supply raw meaty bones as well.

RAW food supplier list. - Pet Forums Community
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  #6  
Old 08-14-2012, 03:10 PM
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I usually get pork or lamb ribs from the butchers counter at Sainsburys. They will cut them to the size you want. Pork ribs are cheap, lamb ribs are stupidly expensive, we only get them when they are on offer. The price of lamb has gone through the roof recently. We also use a local butcher, and he is great. He will put things back for us (in the freezer) such as chicken carcasses, necks and other bones. Some butchers will give bones away for free. Many won't let you have them for dogs though, so ask for soup/stock bones. Morrisons butchers department regularly have bones for sale as well.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:35 PM
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I got some bones from my butcher the other week for 50p...I asked for bones dogs could have and they just gave me a big bag of them. Mylo ate the meat off but didn't touch the bone much. Loved it though! Didn't leave it alone. I'll have to look into that, thanks for the tips Stella.

Thanks so much for all your help Tracy...if only the articles I'd read made it as simple as you! I really appreciate all your knowledge and you taking the time to answer my questions. He's on 3 meals a day right now as he's 14 weeks. He turned 3 months on the 5th August. He is over 3lbs though. I think I'll wait to give the eggs until he's used to raw, that and I never eat them myself and I've never seen less than 6 in a pack. Saying that, I don't buy fresh meat for myself either due to the price! Thanks for the link...I think I have a shop that does the premade raw near me, I'll have to go look for it.
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