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This isn't about chis per se, but I think it does have something to do about the way chis have been changed over the years and I wonder if the change is for the better. I do not want a fight here, just wanted to hear people's opinions, which are just opinions about fashion dictating looks in the dog world. I know my pekes had severe breathing problems all their lives and taking them for a walk was near impossible, I feared for their heart the way they would get to snorting and wheezing. And it seems chis are being bred for shorter and shorter muzzle. How short is too short?

RSPCA starts campaign for purebred health | ohmidog!
 

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This makes me so sad :( My cousin has Pugs and the sweet little dogs snort and snore constantly, struggling to breathe. They are also obese because they can't go on walks longer than about 10 mins because of their breathing. It would be a shame if Chihuahuas went in this direction :( I have an apple head boy with a short nose and a deer head girl with a longer nose and I don't think she is any less pretty or 'Chihuahua looking' because of this. Breeding should be about the health of the animal first and the looks second. Why should a dog go through a lifetime of discomfort for a few days a year in the show ring?
 

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This is an interesting campaign. I think all breeders and consumers need to be a little more cognizant of what kind of dogs they are buying and breeding. I have known well bred english bulldogs that love long walks and even compete in Rally and I have known super flat faced ones that could barely walk 10 feet without having to stop an wheeze. But would I buy an EB or a pug ever? Probably not because I don't really know how I feel about anything that drastic existing.

Breeding poorly makes the whole group of people showing and breeding purebred dogs look bad and that is not fair. I just wish more people would think a little beyond the show ring when they are breeding. From chis with luxating patellas, pugs who can't breathe, king charles spaniels whose hearts are failing in such large numbers they may not have a viable gene pool anymore, dalmatians born deaf, the list goes on and on.

I guess this is a bit of a rant, but I just know some great breeders who really care about their breeds and want them to be healthy functional dogs. Those breeders should get a little more attention.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I guess this is a bit of a rant, but I just know some great breeders who really care about their breeds and want them to be healthy functional dogs. Those breeders should get a little more attention.
That is true. There are breeders that are doing what they can for the breed. I was talking about the trend for bigger apple heads that are causing some females to be unable to birth nomally and the shorter muzzles that crowd teeth. I remember a vet telling me the show crowd wanted Irish Setters with narrower and narrower heads and they ended up with dogs "that were too dumb to find the end of their leash" (his words) They finally had to reverse the trend and make the heads wider to accomodate more brain again.
 

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Not only mothers giving birth, but wouldn't huge heads also make moleras bigger and could that cause issues? I personally think big heads are cute but only to an extent. I have seen some pet store chis around here that have such huge heads they look like aliens but I didn't know it was becoming an issue with the show crowd.
 

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I think a lot of articles like this are one sided. Along with the pedigrees exposed programme. Whilst some have valid points I don't think the chi standard has changed.

Some friends and I looked into old breed standards dating way back and the chihuahua has not changed greatly. The standard never dictated a deer shape etc, there was always an apple head etc.

With any breed there will always be what exhibitors call over done dogs. That's the case with huge head and small muzzles. They don't always win, especially in the uk. Dogs who aren't full of as much type still win because they are sound and move well. Unfortunately all the amature eye sees in a chi is it's head. We aren't a head breed. The structure of the dog and the way it moves are paramount.

Regarding the molera - that's a sensitive area as Europe are trying to get us to breed them out which is stupid. Most chis now days moleras close or are very small by the age of 2. It's rare for one to have an excessive molera I would be more concerned about hydro in such a huge one.

Yes there are some breeders out there who breed for a specific look, they aren't worth a penny but the rest of us who have worked hard and spent hundreds/thousands sourcing the best dogs, showing th and health testing them are breeding for a bigger picture, don't know anyone who likes a pug face on a chi. I haven't actually seen any here in the ring. Seen one major over done head but I really dislike the dog as a whole but the rest head wise are pretty nice
 

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Ive seen a couple of chis in the ring over here with very short noses... And so far ive never seen them placed. Maisie is a bit long in the nose for a chi, but she does better than those who have exagerated features.

The RSPCA has always been anti-pedigrees, and most articles are no more than an attempt to encourace people to go to the rescues rather than show breeders (who more often than not breed for sound, healthy dogs - Its their name and reputation at stake and nobody in the show world would ever want their name on an unhealthy dog!).
 

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Everyone and every judge has a different interpretation of the standard anyway.

I showed all through the summer champ shows (minus eoe) and placed at every single show with Lotus. I didn't see one excessively small muzzle and even the slightly shorter ones out of the dogs still placed. One of my v close friends has a bitch with a v short muzzle, she has still placed well.

Back to the subject at hand frankly I think it's a load of tosh... Chis are a relatively healthy breed. I do feel that other breeds need looking at excessively and feel dogs should be health tested before setting foot in the ring. Would cut a lot out. You would be surprised what goes on behind closed doors in the ring. Luckily enough some people are honest about the health of their dogs.
 

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The RSPCA has always been anti-pedigrees, and most articles are no more than an attempt to encourace people to go to the rescues rather than show breeders (who more often than not breed for sound, healthy dogs - Its their name and reputation at stake and nobody in the show world would ever want their name on an unhealthy dog!).
This is an important point. Many animal rescue groups are actually anti-breeding of any kind (a radical view in my opinion) and the HSUS and PETA are actually anti pet ownership (like we should give the ones out there a good home and let the rest die off). So you have to realize these are all propaganda for people with a bit of an agenda.

What I was saying is that people need to demand transparency from breeders in regard to health testing and only buy from the responsible ones. It is a few "bad" breeders that tarnish the whole sport, and that's sad.

And just to add- I have to agree that as far as purebred dogs go Chis are some of the healthiest of the bunch. I don't know anyone who shows chis, but I am in with a crowd who shows some bigger dogs and never have I heard them talk disparagingly about the health of the breed, and they certainly talk about a lot of other breeds at length.
 
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