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My friend who is getting a Great Dane puppy after the first of the year asked me a question that I didn't have the answer too.....we tell people to avoid By-products in the foods they buy for their dogs yet we feed them as raw (chicken feet, necks, whole prey etc), why is it okay to feed them in raw form but not in the kibble?

I haven't a clue as to how to answer....any suggestions? She is going to probably start her pup on Orijen LBP, then once she gets more used to the idea switch him to raw. But he is her first ever pup so she wants to make sure she does everything right before jumping into raw.
 

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Well I dont know a proper answer for it, but my reason for allowing it raw is because I can see what it is their eating - It isnt random bits from goodness know where!
 

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My friend who is getting a Great Dane puppy after the first of the year asked me a question that I didn't have the answer too.....we tell people to avoid By-products in the foods they buy for their dogs yet we feed them as raw (chicken feet, necks, whole prey etc), why is it okay to feed them in raw form but not in the kibble?

I haven't a clue as to how to answer....any suggestions?
Because when we read "by products" on the label of pet food bags we haven't the slightest clue what they are exactly. Even something more specific like "chicken by-products" tell us that it is some part of the chicken, but what part exactly would that be?

When we feed whole prey under a PMR diet we know exactly what our pets are eating and exactly what amounts of it they are getting as well.

I wouldn't eat something without knowing what it was or what was in it so I wouldn't feed my dogs mystery food either. ;)
 

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'By-products' are worrisome because although they can include elements we use when feeding raw (feet, organs, eyes, tails, etc), you don't know the quality of the animal it came from. Organs with malignant tumors or lumps can be by-products, pieces from 4-D animals (dead, downed, diseased and dying) can be used. It's sort of a mosh pot of 'all things not meat', and unfortunately when you're talking pet food, anything can go. So, it's not so much the parts of the animal that worry me so much as the condition of those parts.
 

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My oldest daughter works for one of the worlds largest turkey producers in the business office of the production plant. We toured this giant facility when we moved her out to VA after she graduated from college. The assembly lines are incredible. Wall to wall people are processing turkeys at the rate of 60,000 birds a DAY, two shifts. Huge trucks come in and unload the turkeys (who are killed by electrocution or by co2). These birds are then sliced and diced down the assembly line.

Bruises, skin tears, tumors, bumps and lumps, along with heads, intestines and guts, anything that is not edible, gets sliced off by the workers and thrown into refuse buckets. These buckets are then collected periodically throughout the day and stored in huge bins that are sold to dog food companies. The USDA inspectors are there watching to make sure that this is done correctly. The livers, gizzards, hearts are put into another bin and the USDA inspector periodically checks them as well. Any organ that looks diseased is thrown into the discard bin for dog food.

These are the by-products. When you feed a kibble containing "turkey", these are the parts you are feeding your dog. NOT the clean flesh that people eat. The dog food industry takes the waste and discards and renders it into turkey meal that is put into dog food.
 

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My oldest daughter works for one of the worlds largest turkey producers in the business office of the production plant. We toured this giant facility when we moved her out to VA after she graduated from college. The assembly lines are incredible. Wall to wall people are processing turkeys at the rate of 60,000 birds a DAY, two shifts. Huge trucks come in and unload the turkeys (who are killed by electrocution or by co2). These birds are then sliced and diced down the assembly line.

Bruises, skin tears, tumors, bumps and lumps, along with heads, intestines and guts, anything that is not edible, gets sliced off by the workers and thrown into refuse buckets. These buckets are then collected periodically throughout the day and stored in huge bins that are sold to dog food companies. The USDA inspectors are there watching to make sure that this is done correctly. The livers, gizzards, hearts are put into another bin and the USDA inspector periodically checks them as well. Any organ that looks diseased is thrown into the discard bin for dog food.

These are the by-products. When you feed a kibble containing "turkey", these are the parts you are feeding your dog. NOT the clean flesh that people eat. The dog food industry takes the waste and discards and renders it into turkey meal that is put into dog food.
Well if that doesn't make you wanna switch to raw or homemake your dog food from scratch...
 

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When you feed a kibble containing "turkey", these are the parts you are feeding your dog. NOT the clean flesh that people eat. The dog food industry takes the waste and discards and renders it into turkey meal that is put into dog food.
Is this really correct? so the company producing say Orijen here in Canada is not using organic human grade meat as they declare?
What about companies like Halo?

Or are you speaking about grocery store brands.
 

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I feed Acana and a RMB a few times a week. I hope it's just the grocery store brands.
 

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Is this really correct? so the company producing say Orijen here in Canada is not using organic human grade meat as they declare?
What about companies like Halo?

Or are you speaking about grocery store brands.
I don't know that all dog food use the cast-offs from the assembly line, but I do know that the term 'human grade' is somewhat misleading. 'Human grade' is not a term defined by the USDA, so it can mean anything at all. Even dog foods that proclaim they are 'USDA inspected' can be misleading as 'inspected' is not the same as 'passed inspection'. Only foods that say they use ingredients 'USDA approved for human consumption' are actually using meat that could otherwise be sold to people.
 

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This is taken from the Orijen website.

All meat ingredients are approved by the Government of Canada and produced exclusively from animals classified ‘fit for human consumption.’
Our fresh meats, including chicken, turkey, eggs, fish, beef, pork, wild boar, bison and lamb are produced within our region in dedicated, federally approved human grade facilities
Our fresh regional ingredients truly meet the AAFCO definition for ‘fresh’, where refrigeration is their only form of preservation — no chemicals, no heat, no freezing!
 

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This is taken from the Orijen website.

All meat ingredients are approved by the Government of Canada and produced exclusively from animals classified ‘fit for human consumption.’
Our fresh meats, including chicken, turkey, eggs, fish, beef, pork, wild boar, bison and lamb are produced within our region in dedicated, federally approved human grade facilities
Our fresh regional ingredients truly meet the AAFCO definition for ‘fresh’, where refrigeration is their only form of preservation — no chemicals, no heat, no freezing!
It sounds a step up above some other brands, for sure. But, I notice that while they say the meat comes from animals approved for human consumption, they never say the meat they put into the dog food is approved for human consumption. I think there may be a difference between the two.
 

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Love this thread! This is why we feed a dog food that is actually safe for human consumption, The Honest Kitchen. It doesn't just contain human grade ingredients, the product you feed your dog is safe for humans to eat and it's made in a human food processing facility. Next best thing to raw and homecooking. :)
 

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Classified fit for human consumption - I read that as the bucket of nasties sliced off the turkeys in the factory Tracey was talking about!!! Freaks me out really does make you wonder what exactly goes into it!!!

I would love to take part in an investigation on what these pet food companies are actually putting in their foods!! Yucky is very worrysome
 

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I really don't think that dog food companies could make any money if they used fresh pristine meat products from the grocery store, like we would eat. This is a myth to make people feel less guilty when they find out what is actually in pet food. Do a little investigating and see for yourself, don't take anyone's word for it.

One thing I found most interesting about the pet food industry was that they have to use a 'denaturing agent' on the meats they buy for their foods. If you look up denaturant and pet foods you will be shocked at what you find.

How does fresh meats like we would buy at the grocery store end up being extruded into tiny pellets that can stay 'fresh' on a store shelf for a year?

I'm not saying not to use Ziwi or THK or Orijen/Acana which I consider top quality foods. I'm just saying that the pet food industry deserves some research. KNOW what you are feeding. Don't just take the fancy bag and marketing as gospel. Learn the truth for yourself so that you are comfortable with what you are feeding.

Here's a few articles about the pet food industry and where the food comes from ....

The true horrors of pet food revealed: Prepare to be shocked by what goes into dog food and cat food

What's Really In Dog Food?

Kibble is kibble is still kibble!

DogAware.com: Commercial Dog Foods

Is the food you're feeding your pet killing it? (and making your vet rich) | Mail Online

An interesting article by Dr. Wysong (of Wysong pet foods) about what exactly 100% complete and balanced means.

The Myth of 100% Complete Pet Food
 

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Love this thread! This is why we feed a dog food that is actually safe for human consumption, The Honest Kitchen. It doesn't just contain human grade ingredients, the product you feed your dog is safe for humans to eat and it's made in a human food processing facility. Next best thing to raw and homecooking. :)
Yup, us too. THK is the only one that can legally be labeled as safe for human consumption as the foods are human quality and produced in a human food processing plant.

Kibble may start with human quality ingredients (debatable) but it is ALWAYS made in pet food processing plants. Which don't have the same standards as human plants and the machines may have (probably have) been used to previously process some really disgusting stuff.
 

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Did anyone ever see the show on Nat Geo, I think, that showed what the leftover meat from meat processors went on to make/become? I saw it on TV about a year ago or more and it was disgusting. All the parts of the stripped animal carcasses (after all the good meats were stripped for human consumption) were put into a grinder and the ground carcass (including head, bones, hooves, everything not for human consumption) put into a vat and melted down to pretty much a doughy texture along with chemicals I forget what chemicals they said. The resulting product was then sent out to be put into makeup and dog food. It was absolutely disgusting to watch and something I will never forget. The thought of feeding something like that to my dogs is absolutely appalling. :sign11:
 

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Did anyone ever see the show on Nat Geo, I think, that showed what the leftover meat from meat processors went on to make/become? I saw it on TV about a year ago or more and it was disgusting. All the parts of the stripped animal carcasses (after all the good meats were stripped for human consumption) were put into a grinder and the ground carcass (including head, bones, hooves, everything not for human consumption) put into a vat and melted down to pretty much a doughy texture along with chemicals I forget what chemicals they said. The resulting product was then sent out to be put into makeup and dog food. It was absolutely disgusting to watch and something I will never forget. The thought of feeding something like that to my dogs is absolutely appalling. :sign11:
I saw that if it was the rendering company on dirty jobs. SICK! Those dead bloated cows that were shoveled into that huge boiling vat and then cooked down to a meal. It was sooooooooo gross!! Low quality food companies buy that as 'meat meal'. The lowest of the low in terms of ingredients!

I think you can watch the episode on youtube. Everyone who is interested in dog food should watch this. It is absolutely enlightening. The link below is graphic of a cow being blown up with air in order to separate the skin from the carcass before it is thrown in the vat to be made into pet food.

 

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Another video, this one a hidden video, of the rendering process. Do NOT watch if you have a weak stomach! Warning, this video is very graphic. However, I do think it is educational. We all should KNOW what is in pet foods.

 
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