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I don't give fruit and veg, they don't need it, they're carnivores, have a look at brodysmoms thread on here about raw feeding, theres some info in there you may find interesting.
 

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I dont see anything wrong with the odd bit of fruit or veg as a treat.
I give mine teeny bits of cucumber, carrots and some banana on occasion, and they love it!
Right now they are getting nout apart from their food till they stop being fussy mind you, lol x
 

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Dogs can't break down cellulose. So if you choose to give fruits or veggies, make sure they are pulped into a slurry or they won't digest at all.

No, carnivores don't need veggies or fruits. But if they enjoy them, I see no reason why they can't have them in moderation. Brody had some peas the other day while we were eating dinner. I just smushed them between my fingers so they were mushy and he licked them off. Consider them a treat, less than 10% of their diet, and it should be fine.
 

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Dogs can't break down cellulose. So if you choose to give fruits or veggies, make sure they are pulped into a slurry or they won't digest at all.

No, carnivores don't need veggies or fruits. But if they enjoy them, I see no reason why they can't have them in moderation. Brody had some peas the other day while we were eating dinner. I just smushed them between my fingers so they were mushy and he licked them off. Consider them a treat, less than 10% of their diet, and it should be fine.
I never knew this. I give Lola carrot sticks every few days or so because I thought that was good for her. She loves her food a little too much so instead of too many biscuit treats I give her a bit of carrot.

Is this no good for her? Be honest I won't be offended.
 

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I never knew this. I give Lola carrot sticks every few days or so because I thought that was good for her. She loves her food a little too much so instead of too many biscuit treats I give her a bit of carrot.

Is this no good for her? Be honest I won't be offended.
Marie, I think it's probably fine for her. Do you see the carrots come out in her poop looking about the same as they went in? If so, they are just passing through. She's probably not absorbing many nutrients from them, but if they are just treats - I see nothing wrong with it!

If you wanted, you could boil the carrots and mush them up. Then her system would be able to digest them and absorb the vitamins. But if they are just "fillers" in place of biscuit treats, then they should be fine.
 

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Rico likes fruit and veg. Fingerling carrots, peas, blueberries, bananas. sweet potato (yam)...Just never ever grapes or raisins or sultanas--they are a toxin to dogs.
 

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Marie, I think it's probably fine for her. Do you see the carrots come out in her poop looking about the same as they went in? If so, they are just passing through. She's probably not absorbing many nutrients from them, but if they are just treats - I see nothing wrong with it!

If you wanted, you could boil the carrots and mush them up. Then her system would be able to digest them and absorb the vitamins. But if they are just "fillers" in place of biscuit treats, then they should be fine.
I don't see them in her poop. I just give them when she does something good. Sometimes I'll give a biscuit and sometimes a bit of carrot. It's just because I worry about over treating her like I did with ben and he got very fat.
 

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Dogs can't break down cellulose. So if you choose to give fruits or veggies, make sure they are pulped into a slurry or they won't digest at all.

No, carnivores don't need veggies or fruits. But if they enjoy them, I see no reason why they can't have them in moderation. Brody had some peas the other day while we were eating dinner. I just smushed them between my fingers so they were mushy and he licked them off. Consider them a treat, less than 10% of their diet, and it should be fine.
Not arguing or challenging Tracy.....that's my disclaimer :D

That said, if we're going to attempt to mimic or mirror a dog's natural/ancestral (in the wild) diet, then they would typically get a small amount of fruit or veggies--i.e. whatever was in the digestive tract of the animals they brought down, assuming those animals were herbivores or omnivores. Typically, a carnivore, upon bringing down its prey, goes first for the gut, ripping open the belly (which is the softest, and therefore the easiest to eat quickly) and devouring those contents first. (I know this is graphic, sorry. But it's what happens.)

My point being that they get a small amount of carbohydrate (pretty much pre-digested because its in their prey's gut.....which validates your other point) but also, typically, no carbs from a grain source, because the prey of carnivores didn't tend to eat grain as a mainstay of their diets. They ate grasses, fruits, veggies, leaves etc.
 

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Not arguing or challenging Tracy.....that's my disclaimer :D

That said, if we're going to attempt to mimic or mirror a dog's natural/ancestral (in the wild) diet, then they would typically get a small amount of fruit or veggies--i.e. whatever was in the digestive tract of the animals they brought down, assuming those animals were herbivores or omnivores. Typically, a carnivore, upon bringing down its prey, goes first for the gut, ripping open the belly (which is the softest, and therefore the easiest to eat quickly) and devouring those contents first. (I know this is graphic, sorry. But it's what happens.)

My point being that they get a small amount of carbohydrate (pretty much pre-digested because its in their prey's gut.....which validates your other point) but also, typically, no carbs from a grain source, because the prey of carnivores didn't tend to eat grain as a mainstay of their diets. They ate grasses, fruits, veggies, leaves etc.
This is true Tink and you're 100% right in that wild canids will go for the belly first as it's soft and easy to tear open. They usually eat organs first according to studies I've read... heart, kidneys, spleen, liver. I thought like you - surely they eat all the grass, berries, etc. in the deer's stomach, right? But apparently they don't! According to a wolf expert (I can find the biography info if you want), they pull the stomach out, rip it open and SHAKE OUT THE CONTENTS. Then they eat it. So yes, they are getting some of the contents. But they don't eat it all by any means.

Now if we are talking small prey, such as rabbits, birds, mice, etc. I think they swallow them whole a lot of times and so they would be getting everything in the rodents or birds stomach.

I'm not a purist by any means. By that I mean that I don't frown upon feeding small amounts of fruits or veggies. Dogs are opportunistic, we know that! But I don't adhere to BARF methods of feeding as I think they are WAY too veggie heavy. But the occasional veggie or fruit? Why not. :)

Oh, and Brody says he likes to snack on leaves, grass, clover, and dirt too. Cat hair or rabbit poo is a bonus. Don't leave that out. LOL!
 

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Stottie's vet recommended that he eats a regular amount of pureed carrots and broccoli for an extra boost of vitamin A and fibre.
(he needs the vitamin A for his ear condition and the extra fibre to firm up his poo as he is having problems with his anal glands.)
i also give both dogs a daily chunk of raw carrot to crunch on to help clean their teeth.
they get an occasional slice of banana or spoon of pumpkin/squash as i find it firms up runny poo.
they also have a huge passion for raw mange tout (they wont eat it cooked). they get one every other day as a treat for good behaviour.
 

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This is true Tink and you're 100% right in that wild canids will go for the belly first as it's soft and easy to tear open. They usually eat organs first according to studies I've read... heart, kidneys, spleen, liver. I thought like you - surely they eat all the grass, berries, etc. in the deer's stomach, right? But apparently they don't! According to a wolf expert (I can find the biography info if you want), they pull the stomach out, rip it open and SHAKE OUT THE CONTENTS. Then they eat it. So yes, they are getting some of the contents. But they don't eat it all by any means.

Now if we are talking small prey, such as rabbits, birds, mice, etc. I think they swallow them whole a lot of times and so they would be getting everything in the rodents or birds stomach.
I think we're thinking the same thing. I wasn't trying to imply that they get a large amount of fruits or veggies in the wild, just that they don't eat flesh exclusively. That if the fruits/veggies have been ingested by whatever they bring down, they're going to get some of it too, especially like you said if they eat a small animal whole.

The REASON they can't tolerate that kind of food well is that their digestive systems simply aren't set up for it. Their anatomical features of carnivores are different than that of herbivores or omnivores. Carnivores digestive tracts are much shorter, their teeth are designed for tearing and slicing meat, not grinding down plant sources, and their jaws move vertically rather than the herbivores side to side motion. Plus they don't secrete amylase, which is the chemical omnivores and herbivores have in their saliva that helps break down the carbohydrates. So a big burden is placed on the pancreas of the carnivore when confronted with having to digest too much carbohydrate.

WAY more information than anyone needed, I suppose! :D :D
 

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I think we're thinking the same thing. I wasn't trying to imply that they get a large amount of fruits or veggies in the wild, just that they don't eat flesh exclusively. That if the fruits/veggies have been ingested by whatever they bring down, they're going to get some of it too, especially like you said if they eat a small animal whole.

The REASON they can't tolerate that kind of food well is that their digestive systems simply aren't set up for it. Their anatomical features of carnivores are different than that of herbivores or omnivores. Carnivores digestive tracts are much shorter, their teeth are designed for tearing and slicing meat, not grinding down plant sources, and their jaws move vertically rather than the herbivores side to side motion. Plus they don't secrete amylase, which is the chemical omnivores and herbivores have in their saliva that helps break down the carbohydrates. So a big burden is placed on the pancreas of the carnivore when confronted with having to digest too much carbohydrate.

WAY more information than anyone needed, I suppose! :D :D
Great post Tink. :hello1:
 

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My little girl is almost a complete vegetarian now after she was diagnosed with live problems; hepatic microvascular dysplasia.

She used to love her chicken and doggie sausages.

Now her favourite treat is cous cous with boiled mashed carrot...he he
 

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Hmm, I was wondering how come vegetarian dogs are still alive then if dogs cant digest other food types??:confused:
I think raw carrots are often given as chews. They will pass straight through but that means they are non fattening and good for their teeth!:D
My lot have a tinned food every day that already contains whole pieces of carrot, pumpkin and pea's. I think it probably goes down ok because tinned veg is usually soft.
Plus we went through the pineapple stops poop eating phase too!:rolleyes:
TBH I prefer giving them sinew/tendon treats coz it keeps them occupied for longer, ie-pizzle(bully)sticks and paddywhack.
 

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It's not that they CAN'T digest other food types, but that their bodies have to work much harder to do so because their digestive tracts weren't designed for consumption of fruits and vegetables as a primary, or major, food source. As a result, they don't get adequate nutrition because they don't metabolize and absorb the nutrients from the fruits and veggies as well as they do from protein,plus several organs, like the pancreas as one example, are overworked trying to make some use of the food.
 

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Mity has lot of suppliments also but that is purely becaue of her liver issues.

I guess if a dog was a vegie then you would have to make some amazing meals using all the supplements out there. Not just carrots, potatoes etc.
 
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