Chihuahua People Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.goletavet.com/giardiainfoandvax.htm

My veternarian's office has become very ineffecient and profit focused since it changed ownership. (Our doctor whom we love and who used to own it just works there now.)

Frasier just finished all shots, then I get a card in the mail saying it's time for you Giardia vaccine. Never heard of it. So I looked it up. It's only been available a year - which worries me. But, on the other hand, what if it's something he needs and if he needs it, WHY didn't the doctor mention it. GRRR

One of the many links I found is posted above. Please let me know what y'all know about this disease/vaccine and what you think about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I'm a pet sitter/dog walker and when I got to a client's community yesterday evening, there were notices posted everywhere about this. Something along the lines of "Our dogs are being affected by Giardia! It can kill puppies as well as adult dogs. It is transmitted by sniffing/eating infected feces. Please pick up after your dog and keep our pets safe!"

I had never heard of it either..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
I have heard of it and have seen a couple dogs with it, but we dont offer that vaccine at our office. I can do this for everyone...let me ask the vets I work for and see what they have to say about it. They are wonderful vets and I trust them with my dogs (hense why I am working there :wink: ) I pull up tons of vaccines every day and I have yet to even see a box with those in it. I will ask Monday and get back to everyone!

EDIT: I remember now...dogs can get that from stagnent water supplies...which is why you hear so many people say to offer your dog clean water several times a day. I still dont know about the vaccine though...I do know it can be transfered to humans but I dont know how common it is for a dog to get it.
Again, I will check and get back to you all! Until then hold off on getting it....we all saw what that Heartguard 6month vaccine did and now its off the shelves
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Giardia is almost like Parvo in how it affects people and dogs -- makes you literally have it coming out both ends. It can be very dangerous to our small dogs, due to the already ever-present threat of malnutrition and dehydration. While I have been lucky and the worst reaction Chili has had to ANY of his shots was a little tenderness at the injection site, I would recommend this shot to anyone who has young kids, as it can be spread through feces contamination, and we all know that young kids tend to be in situations where that happens alot -- think daycare. Chili had his giardia vaccine and no problems. Please research it thoroughly if you have a puppy/dog who has had reactions to other meds, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Martini's Mommy said:
I'm a pet sitter/dog walker and when I got to a client's community yesterday evening, there were notices posted everywhere about this. Something along the lines of "Our dogs are being affected by Giardia! It can kill puppies as well as adult dogs. It is transmitted by sniffing/eating infected feces. Please pick up after your dog and keep our pets safe!"

I had never heard of it either..
The article says it primarily kills puppies and senior dogs and for whatever reason adopted dogs (maybe it means dogs from shelters exposed to large numbers of other dogs). I understood it was contracted primarly from drinking from puddles.

Frasier does this - any spot of liquid on the patio and he's there like a roll of paper towels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
The Giardia vaccine is not recommended by the AVMA, Cornell University, Tufts University, or UCDavis University (the 3 main schools involved in Vaccine research and publish vaccine guidelines on a regular basis). It is definately zoonotic, and the fact that a vaccine isn't offered to humans (even though it public health reportable, and wide-spread) is an indicator that the vaccine isn't ready to use on my dogs. My personal belief is that as vaccines are developed for zoonotic diseases, they are tested wide-scale in the veterinary market before they are approved by the FDA, great huh?

Here's the abstract from a recent JAVMA article concerning Giardia Vaccine:

J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2003 Jun 1;222(11):1548-51. Related Articles, Links


Efficacy of Giardia vaccination in the treatment of giardiasis in cats.

Stein JE, Radecki SV, Lappin MR.

Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To assess efficacy of Giardia vaccination as a treatment for giardiasis in experimentally infected cats. DESIGN: Original study. ANIMALS: 16 young-adult cats. PROCEDURE: Cats were experimentally infected by orogastric administration of Giardia cysts. On weeks 4, 6, and 10, cats in the treatment group (n = 8) were given Giardia vaccine SC. For the first 28 weeks after infection, 3 fecal samples from each cat were examined weekly for Giardia cysts, and cyst numbers were counted. Fecal consistency was scored daily for the duration of the study. Results from vaccinated and unvaccinated cats were compared by logistic regression. RESULTS: All cats became infected and were shedding Giardia cysts by the end of week 2. Throughout the study, diarrhea was rare and was mild and transient when it did occur. By week 28, 5 of 8 vaccinated cats and 7 of 8 control cats had patent Giardia infections. Magnitude of infection, based on number of fecal samples with cysts and number of cysts per sample, decreased progressively in both groups over time. CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Administration of 3 doses of a Giardia vaccine did not completely eliminate the organism from experimentally infected cats in the study period. Since clinical signs were minimal in both groups of cats, it could not be determined whether vaccination lessened severity of clinical disease. Results may have been negatively influenced by the large inoculation dose. Whether Giardia vaccination is an effective treatment for giardiasis in naturally infected cats remains to be determined.

Along with Coronavirus vaccine, Giardia Vaccine is on Cornell's list of "NOT RECOMMENDED VACCINES" for dogs for the following reasons:

Giardia Not recommended
1. Efficacy of Vaccine unsubstantiated by independent studies.
2. IgA mucosal antibodies? Immunity against a complex organism?
3. Natural infection does not provide immunity.

Basically meaning, the vaccine's usefulness lacks testing, the immunity against the giardia organism depends on the vaccine antibodies' ability to recognize a particular strain of giardia parasite, and lastly, since giardia is not a viral organism, the body does not build up natural antibodies to it upon infection (like your chi would with distemper or parvo vaccine). All the vaccine does is circulate engineered chemicals to disrupt the life cycle of giardia (uneffectively).

Will there be a time when Giardia vaccine will be useful? Maybe, but not right now.

-Nate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I appreciate Ilovesadie's post. Research works for me. I just finished my graduate theses so "according to the research" comes out of my mouth when I talk in my sleep. lol

That post made me 99.9% certain that Frasier is not getting the shot, but I still want to know what Jessica's doctors have to say just in case there is new info since the date of the article.

It makes me very sad that I used to trust my our vet totally with my animals' lives and now I can no longer do that. Everything changed when he went from being owner to employee. It's one of the many reasons I'm happy to be moving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,716 Posts
Basically meaning, the vaccine's usefulness lacks testing, the immunity against the giardia organism depends on the vaccine antibodies' ability to recognize a particular strain of giardia parasite, and lastly, since giardia is not a viral organism, the body does not build up natural antibodies to it upon infection (like your chi would with distemper or parvo vaccine). All the vaccine does is circulate engineered chemicals to disrupt the life cycle of giardia (uneffectively).

Will there be a time when Giardia vaccine will be useful? Maybe, but not right now.

-Nate

well said!!! we just had a hospital meeting today and this was talked about briefly and what you said about it is what a majority of the hospital felt about it as well....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
Frasier's mom: glad the post was helpful, perhaps it will also ease your mind that I'm a vet tech who works with 5 of California's most influential veterinarians, and have consulted the Chief Medical Officer of VCA, as well as UCDavis and Cornell about the topic of innapropriate vaccination with regards to Giardia, Leptospirosis, and Coronavirus vaccine. Of the 3 questionabble vaccines, only Lepto vaccine is worth considering, even though it's not very effective since it only covers 2/4 (depending on Pfizer or Fort Dodge) of 7 serovars.

"According to research" is something I'm big on as well =) I'm sure I will be saying it a lot more when I start vet school in the fall.

-Nate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,716 Posts
nate, what do you feel about the lepto virus? we have seen a few cases ourselves and we got memo's from other hospitals in new jersey that have had cases of it....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
Luvmypuppet, leptospirosis is being seen across the nation, a hospital 20 miles north of Los Angeles saw a liver/kidney failure case that tested positive for lepto, which is really close to home!

Lepto is easily spread by the urine of infected animals, and doesn't require ingestion, only contact with abrasions on the skin, which often includes paws, hock sores, and other areas of our dogs that often touch the floor.

Although there are over 200 strains of Leptospirra Interrogans, only 7 commonly infect dogs. Recent serological studies on wildlife and domestic dogs suggests that L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona have replaced L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola as the prevalent serovars responsible for Leptospirosis in the United States today. Fortunately, Fort Dodge now offers the Duramune Leptospirosis vaccine that immunizes against L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona serovars as well as L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola. This is great news for owners, however there are caveats to the Lepto Vaccine.

Lepto Vaccine is one of the most likely vaccines to cause fatal anaphylactic reactions in puppies, and isn't recommended for young dogs. Furthermore, the vaccination interferes with a proper diagnosis of the disease, unlike other commonly used vaccines. Lastly, most animals are infected with multiple strains of Leptospirra, which makes the vaccine only effective in situations where these strains are protected against. Vaccinating even for 4 serovars is somewhat useless if there is even one more serovar infecting the animal.

One thing I will mention, is that many veterinarians miss Leptospirosis as a diagnosis, especially in areas it is uncommonly seen. There are many diseases that have similar symptoms and serotological findings, so most vets go for the most common disorders and treat symptomatically rather than systemically. To test for Lepto requires specific testing (MAT test) that is costly and often overlooked. It would never hurt to mention the possibility to Lepto to your vet if your animal has kidney failure accompanied by liver/GI disorders and other disorders are ruled out.

The good news, is that Lepto is easily treated, usually by penecillan/tetracyclines or by penecillin/flouroquinolone like Bayril (enroflaxacin), and if caught early, prognosis is usually great!

To be honest, Lepto scares me because it's so easy to transmit and contract and goes by undetected many times. I haven't vaccinated either of my dogs yet since no native cases of Lepto have been seen in my local area, but when I move out to Michigan I may consider it.

Hope that helps, mostly opinion with some basic facts, but if you have any more detailed questions I would be happy to answer them!

-Nate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,716 Posts
ilovesadie said:
Luvmypuppet, leptospirosis is being seen across the nation, a hospital 20 miles north of Los Angeles saw a liver/kidney failure case that tested positive for lepto, which is really close to home!

Lepto is easily spread by the urine of infected animals, and doesn't require ingestion, only contact with abrasions on the skin, which often includes paws, hock sores, and other areas of our dogs that often touch the floor.

Although there are over 200 strains of Leptospirra Interrogans, only 7 commonly infect dogs. Recent serological studies on wildlife and domestic dogs suggests that L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona have replaced L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola as the prevalent serovars responsible for Leptospirosis in the United States today. Fortunately, Fort Dodge now offers the Duramune Leptospirosis vaccine that immunizes against L. grippotyphosa and L. pomona serovars as well as L. icterohaemorrhagiae and L. canicola. This is great news for owners, however there are caveats to the Lepto Vaccine.

Lepto Vaccine is one of the most likely vaccines to cause fatal anaphylactic reactions in puppies, and isn't recommended for young dogs. Furthermore, the vaccination interferes with a proper diagnosis of the disease, unlike other commonly used vaccines. Lastly, most animals are infected with multiple strains of Leptospirra, which makes the vaccine only effective in situations where these strains are protected against. Vaccinating even for 4 serovars is somewhat useless if there is even one more serovar infecting the animal.

One thing I will mention, is that many veterinarians miss Leptospirosis as a diagnosis, especially in areas it is uncommonly seen. There are many diseases that have similar symptoms and serotological findings, so most vets go for the most common disorders and treat symptomatically rather than systemically. To test for Lepto requires specific testing (MAT test) that is costly and often overlooked. It would never hurt to mention the possibility to Lepto to your vet if your animal has kidney failure accompanied by liver/GI disorders and other disorders are ruled out.

The good news, is that Lepto is easily treated, usually by penecillan/tetracyclines or by penecillin/flouroquinolone like Bayril (enroflaxacin), and if caught early, prognosis is usually great!

To be honest, Lepto scares me because it's so easy to transmit and contract and goes by undetected many times. I haven't vaccinated either of my dogs yet since no native cases of Lepto have been seen in my local area, but when I move out to Michigan I may consider it.

Hope that helps, mostly opinion with some basic facts, but if you have any more detailed questions I would be happy to answer them!

-Nate
i had to get tested for it not too long ago, cause shortly after i came in contact with the dog who no one knew had lepto we figured out what was wrong with the dog and it had lepto. it was just coincidence that i got sick after having contact with the dog that's why i had to be tested.... thanks for your input on it :wave:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
Not necessarily ineffective or dangerous, but not necessary by any means. Coronavirus is very mild parvo-type virus that causes minimal GI symptoms, the greatest concern is dehydration from extensive diarrhea. It is rarely fatal, and a case of Coronavirus hasn't been seen in the United States for over 20 years. Furthermore, in a study done in 1987 by Cornell, vaccinating cats/dogs under 16 weeks of age caused fatal encephalitis. Coronavirus vaccine is found in many combo vaccines (DHPP-C Pfizer) but if it offered separately by your veterinarian, don't hesitate to question it's efficacy.

To quote a well known vaccine researcher: "Vaccinating dogs for Coronavirus is like vaccinating your child for Ebola Virus, it's dangerous some where, some time ago, but not now, not here."

-Nate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Beamer and Fritzy came down with a cause of Giardia while we were still living at our old rental house. Fritzy wasn't being himself so we took them in and Beamers stool sample and what they first thought was upset stomach turned into Giardia. Beamer had it but displayed no outward signs including diareahea. Fritzy was worse off and had the bad runs and stomach bloat. They did 2 fulls weeks of antibiotics and they haven't been postive for it since we moved. In our last home, the next door lady kept 50+ ferral cats living in her backyard and we believe this is how it was transmitted. Our vet never offered a preventative vaccine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,512 Posts
in the spring of 1988 I bought a doberman and his mother had the cornavirus when she was pregeant the pups were tested and tested postive, but showed no syptoms... When I brought my little buddy home we first of all took him straight to the vet and she checked him over and tested him again and yes he had it. so we were given a special diet for him and meds for the virus. he grew up healthy and he lived for 12 years.

WE lived in Portland Oregon at the time...
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top