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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

First off i would like to say that since getting our chi I have been reading the forums and find them a great source of chi knowledge! :cool:

Unfortunately my questions are not so good :( It sickens me to realize we have most likely gotten our little baby (unknowingly) from a puppy farm. Long story short, my partner and I bought a "chi" pup from a chain pet store here in NSW (Australia) not realizing the horrors of what goes on behind the scenes. The sales staff were a nightmare pushing all these products on to us despite us saying no (they actually literally rang up and put through items unbeknownst to us while we were trying to do the paperwork), was a total and obvious ridiculous price $1500 (but we were already in love with him and my partner was more than happy to pay) and to top it off told us he "didn't have documentation but that we didn't need it that was only for show dogs" and of course having never bought a puppy and them being a big chain petstore we had no idea and went a long with it believing them. Only tonight after seeing RSPCA rescue last night about puppy mills and stumbling across an article about puppy mills have I realized what has probably actually happened. I want to cry, the thought that we supported something so cruel, not to mention means our little Cooper (what we have called our 'chi') has probably inherited some horrible health defect genes due to not being bred properly etc, and I am beginning to doubt he is actually a pure bred chi at all. (because they 'didn't have' the paperwork) What does everyone think? He doesn't look like a typical pure bred does he? So we were lied to about that too.
I want to get in contact with the 'breeder' and see his parents to find out exactly what he is, learn about any problems they may have and so I know to monitor Cooper for health problems they could have passed on and finally maybe take action against the petshop. We were sucked in and I don't want to see this happen to another naive couple/family/person.
My quesions are; what are the laws regarding false claims of being 'purebred'? Can I demand the petshop give me the details of the breeder so I can get in to contact with them (as i have read else where of people asking the petshop this and they refused saying they can't legally give out the details, which i doubt) so I want to know my legal rights on this.
And also what do you think Cooper may be? He is definitely partly Chi at least. Is there some sort of blood test he can have done to prove if he is pure/mixed etc?

I feel sick to my stomach knowing all this :( How this is legal in this day and age I have no idea. It has definitely been a wake up call, and taught me never to be so trusting (although something did not feel right about the store in the first place, probably why we were so eager to get him out of there and away from all that :()

Any imput would be great. And I already know, we are terrible, terrible people for supporting a puppy mill, if only we had of known then what we know now. :sad5: View attachment 7668
 

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Could you post some side profile shots of him to see his stop and muzzle? From the front, he looks pretty chi-like. What's his weight? His adorable regardless!

They have DNA tests available online to determine what his breed is/mixed with but I'm not sure of its accuracy. I think they run about $60-$70 and up.
 

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He's adorable! He looks like a chi to me. Don't beat yourself up, you didn't know. I once bought a cocker spaniel for my mom from a pet store about 25 years ago. Daphne was fine, lived to be 14 years old and never had a sick day in her life. I really don't know the answers to the rest of your questions, and if it is a puppy mill, you may never get any answers. Try to find out if you can, but if you can't, just love him.
 

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Woah ... stop, stop, stop driving yourself frantic with worry & upset!!! Once a puppy is born, be it at a puppy farm, or backyard breeder, IT TOO NEEDS A HOME! The authorities are working on ways in this country to stamp out puppy farms & unreg'd breeders, but it won't happen overnight so, until then, those wee pups need adoption too.

Yes, they sure as hell saw you coming with the price, $1.5k is premium price form the country's best breeders, with papers & lifetime "friendship support".

My Vet (an ex Prof at the Vet School) will tell you that in many ways he prefers "purebred mutts of unknown bloodlines being bred" as it results in healthier pups than linebred (read inbred - when grandfather impregnates granddaughter, or bro & sis etc).

All 4 of my purebred Chi's came from Aussie backyard breeders and I cannot fault them - will be putting photos up soon'ish'. Your boy looks pure to me and if you don't wish to breed or show then papers, pedigrees, who's up who & who's not paying the rent is ALL BS as far as I'm concerned - providing your dog is happy, 100% healthy & you love it to bits, where it came from or how it came to be is irrelvant so long as these loopholes are there to allow indiscriminate breeding by puppy farms.

Yes I want to see them banished & shut down - would I buy a puppy directly from them, hell yes, just to rescue it & get it the heck out of there, but as I was getting in my car I'd be telling them they were scum of the earth lowlifes and it was going to be my mission in life to have them shut down and I hope their karma is sweet 'coz it's gonna be brutal, then I'd ring the rspca & their local council and you could bet your bottom dollar they would be closed down within days, especially once council got wind of it :)

I bought a Mini Foxy from Pets Paradise in Coffs Harbour - he lived a wonderful happy healthy 16 years without ever having to go to a vet & he would've still been here if it hadn't been for a nasty fall. DO NOT assume your pup will have health issues if you feed him right - the further apart the gene pool is, the more I like it.

I paid $350, $450, $550 & $600 for my babies from backyarders (3 from the same breeder) and I count my lucky stars every day for the joy they bring into my life, I absolutely adore them and there is no way I could've afforded to buy from a top breeder and, frankly, nor would I have wanted to because that is when problems start in my previous experience with super expensive show kennel stock.

The MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN DO FOR THIS PUP is give him a brilliant diet - please search the forum for raw food diet and ZIWIPEAK - ZiwiPeak is the best of the best and a brilliant diet is where everything starts, believe me!
 

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I know how you feel. I think the biggest thing is that you probably feel as though you've been taken advantage of.

I agree with Dee, the pup still needs a loving home and in a sense you did rescue him! He's adorable.

I have a golden which my son purchased for his family from a pet store in a mall. I was very upset when he told me. But, I ended up with her and I feel as though he sort of rescued her.

As far as their health, there are never real "guarantees" Once you have that pup, I can't imagine returning it! I'm sure he'll be fine. As Dee said, give him a good diet and regular check ups.

Congratulations!
 

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Beck, so glad you found this site, and your little Cooper is absolutely adorable! I love his name. He looks chi to me. I bought my Lulu from a pet store. I didn't know better at the time either, but I will have to say I feel the same as Dee. In a perfect world puppy mills and backyard breeders that breed solely for the money and do not care for their dogs would not exist, and I would do anything I could to help that be a reality. In the meantime, those are living creatures that didn't ask to be born by those conditions and desperately need loving, responsible homes. I have the utmost respect and appreciation for those who breed soley for the betterment of the breed and do everything correctly and want to support those individuals, but we are not talking about boycotting inantimate objects--these are living creatures that will face death if someone doesn't take them in after they have been brought into this world for the purpose of a buck. The answer is tougher laws on breeding, but where do you start with that? I can certainly be wrong in my thoughts on this subject--it's just my very uneducated opinion. Now back to your situation. Take Cooper to the vet for a well-check. He may very well be fine. My Lulu is 4 years old and does not have Luxating Patella (common in small breeds), liver shunts, eye problems (also common in chis), she is perfectly healthy aside from the occasional very minor doggy issue. Love him, enjoy him, feed him VERY HEALTHY food, socialize him well while he is a puppy, and quit worrying.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thank you so so so much everyone for your posts so far, they have been an amazing help!
In reply to the questions, he was 1.15kg at 12 weeks when we bought him (he is now 13 weeks, but haven't weighed him since we bought him). I did take him to the vet straight after we got him and she just said he was healthy but at the time i didn't ask about him being pure bred chi or about health problems from bad breeders as I hadn't realized all this yet.

And here are some photos of his profile from the side, he does look chi but I am thinking he isn't 100% pure because they 'didn't have papers' (or is that common practice even for purebreds when they are mill farmed?)
He certainly shows some signs of being chi, like that he loooooves to tunnel under any blanket he can get his paws onto hehehe!

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7669&stc=1&d=1343984721
http://www.chihuahua-people.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7670&stc=1&d=1343984791
http://www.chihuahua-people.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7671&stc=1&d=1343984846
http://www.chihuahua-people.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7672&stc=1&d=1343984964

And again guys thank you so much for all your help so far :)
 

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He looks about as Chi as any 100% deer head Chi can be = it is quite common for purebreds not to have papers, none of mine do BUT they ALL have moleras :) Feel his head & see if it's like a babies skull before the bones join up - it's only the Chi breed that have this.

Those who keep up their kennel club rego, show & breed all the time will deal with all the paperwork & red tape. Many of the old timers, people long since retired from the showring but still breeding, many of them just can't be bothered with all the official mumbo jumbo but would die without their 10-20 dogs. I can't really say this any other way but how it is - the dog world/scene, especially shows, is rife with backstabbing, gossiping, and nastiness ... it's a veritable minefield and many people just get out of it as quick as they got in, leave in a huff, end up disliking the whole scene and people in it, and decide to go their own way and just enjoy their dogs, breeding etc. There's a whole plethora of reasons people don't fawn all over the kennel clubs and not without good reason sometimes.

Not every single pup in pet shops came from disgusting, putrid puppy mills, and not every puppy "mill" or "farm" is putrid and disgusting. As with everything there are varying degrees and there are some perfectly healthy, happy, good quality PUREBRED (as I believe yours is) dogs to be found, as well as those that are not quite so good.
 

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Wow, $1,500 is very expensive for a Chi puppy with no papers. I recently got a puppy from the top Chi breeder in Australia with many champions in his pedigree and he was (just) less than $1,500.

He looks at least mostly Chi to me, possible he has some jack russel or mini fox terrier in him. He's a little on the larger size for a purebred chi too,my new pup was 1.1kg when i got him at 16 weeks? As Dee suggested check for an open fontanel in his head which some purebred chi's have, although only one of my 3 had one and it's not even the best bred one.

Although it might not have been under the best circumstances you have him now so just enjoy him and make sure you give him the best start in life. That means good food and discipline and socialization. Look into stockists of ZiwiPeak or K9 naturals in your area if you want to go for a pre prepared food or research raw of BARF diets. Take him out and give him as many new experiences as possible and enrol him in puppy school.

Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions.
 

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Wow, $1,500 is very expensive for a Chi puppy with no papers.
Gemma was $1500 (10,000 SEK) and she has no papers. Pretty standard pricing for Sweden, however.

Don't worry about your little guy not having papers. That does not make him not a purebred. He looks like a Chi to me, but it's always possible there could be something else mixed in.

You are not terrible people. So many people just don't know the horror behind pet store puppies and animals and it's not their faults. Why would anyone suspect such madness? You have him now and that's all that matters. You will provide him with a happy, loving home and a long life and that sure does not make you terrible! The little man needed a home no matter where he came from.
 

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he looks like a chihuahua to me.I understand how you feel.Me and my husband walked into a pet store about 3 years ago,and seen this little chihuahua sitting in a small cage with others.Our heart melted,we had to have her.There was alot of red flags then to think back on it now.First it was kinda smelly there,all the other chihuahuas were a higher price and her a lower price,hair was missing off of her.We've had health prolems since the day we got her.BUT THIS MAY NOT HAPPEN TO YOU,we fell in love with her at first sight.She had papers,and we even got in touch with the breeder,but she just said parents and grands were healthy.Dont beat your self up,you love him and hes got a loving home,Maybe you were sent in that store for a reason.
 

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He looks all chi to me. Even though his coloring is different, his look reminds me a lot of Jazz at around that age, who I believe to be purebred. Though honestly, they're both rescues so I can't be 100%. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other, I love them both for who they are, not what they're made of :)

And that's really what YOU have to focus on. I don't think you were duped as far as his breed, he looks full blooded. But you were totally taken for a ride as far as the price of the dog. Wow! :( So, OK, you were conned. It happens. So now what? Does it make enough of a difference to you that you want to return the pup and get your money back? If not, then let it go and focus on making the best of what you have.

The little guy is adorable. He will give you a lifetime of unconditional love and 110 % of devotion to you, so make that life as excellent and long as it can possibly be by giving him superior quality food, comprehensive vet car, and returning his love to you in kind. As someone else said, you can do DNA testing on him, if it's that important to you. But unless your curiosity is just too great, why bother if you're not going to act on the information anyway.

As best as I have been able to determine, it looks like Tango was a puppy mill/pet store dog, who then went to a pretty neglectful home where he was kept caged 24/7 because they had 4 huge dogs. He certainly didn't get the best start in life, but thankfully the only evidence of his lack of good breeding is the dental issues. He had to have three teeth removed before he was two because they were rotten, in SPITE of my herculean efforts to maintain his good dental hygiene. So far he hasn't lost any more, but it's taking daily cleaning, water additives, teeth gel, and a once a year dental at the Vet's office to keep what's left in decent shape. Other than that, he gets a full blood panel every other year, and a mini panel in between, to detect any possible issues before they become major, as my own personal nod to his shady history. That's the best I can do for him.

My point in relating all this is that you have a dog now, whatever his lineage and however you got him, he's yours to love and pamper. He needs a home just as much as the chi who got the better start in life. Make the most of what you have, and you'll be rewarded with more love than it's conceivable could possibly ever be contained in such a tiny little chi body! :love4:
 
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