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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know there are several housebreaking threads already, so I'm just adding to the mix. :D

I'm frustrated. I've been working on Jazz's housetraining to a pee pad for some months now, since I rescued her at 11 weeks. She's now almost 8 months old. I'm not a novice at housebreaking, so I know the ropes. She's progressed to the point where she has the run of the upstairs for supervised periods of time, and the rest of the time she's confined either to her crate, or, when I have to be away longer than I think is comfortable for her, to a small bathroom with food and water, bed and toys, and a pee pad. Things had been going well, and I've been looking forward to the time in the not too distant future when she will have the full run of the place, with no need of supervision, just like Tango, who is 100% trained to a pee pad and never has accidents.

However, in the past couple of weeks, she seems to be backsliding. She's had a number of pee accidents when she's roaming the upstairs.( I have pee pads placed strategically which she was using.) If that weren't bad enough, she's also not always going on her pee pad when she's confined to the bathroom. She'll pee beside or next to it, some of the time, and some of the time she won't pee anywhere near it! I know it took Tango a little while to learn to hit the pee pad every time...he'd think he was doing good because his front paws were on it, but his back end wasn't. Or he'd have one side of his body on and one side off. Jazz has done that on occasion too, so I know how that goes. This, what she's been doing currently, seems different in that she just doesn't seem to be taking the care she used to to actually get to the pee pad to pee.

She sometimes poops off the pad, but that's because she travels when she poops so sometimes she travels off the pad before she's done. I had that problem with Tango too, but time and maturity took care of it, and I assume Jazz will follow suit. But the pee thing's different. It's like she's UN-learned a bunch of what she had learned prior.

I don't know what to make of it. Tango didn't do that. None of my other dogs over the years did either, so this behavior is outside of my experience. There have been no changes that I can think of, regarding her food, schedule etc., it's all the same. I took her to the Vet, no UTI.

I don't know if there's any relationship, but she DID find her bark lol! She's started making noise, finally, though she's still not growling. But occasionally she'll let out a few barks, and honestly it seems to startle her when she does. :D Other than that, there are no changes or differences in her life or her behavior that I can pinpoint.

Any ideas as to what might have caused this, and more importantly, what I can DO about it?
 

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Just my two cents worth... "roaming the upstairs"? well, I think she is a bit young to be left to her own devices. My two are 15 months and I still need to sort of monitor their roaming in a four room area. I remember Tabitha went through a few days when she just "forgot" to use the newspaper. Now, they are both consistently taking themselves to the paper/litterpan. But, at 7 or 8 months they can get really distracted. Also, it may be confusing to have too many pee/poop stations set up. We have just one area and their freedom is limited to how far away they can play and still remember to go there when the time comes. If I am not at home, they are in ex-pen with bed, water, litterpan and room to walk around. Hang in there. It could just be a developmental stage that she will again outgrow in a couple weeks :)
 

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8 months is hitting adolescence. ;-) A lot of dogs backslide around this age, my younger border collie certainly did! What I did was take her back to puppy training for a week or two, tethering her to me when she was out of her crate, using the crate when I couldn't keep an eagle eye on her, etc. All it took was a week of this and she "remembered" her potty manners.

I wonder too if there are too many potty pads around? I've never used potty pads so I'm not certain on the training but that might be a problem. Use a couple of potty pads placed in definite places that don't move and are always there. Help her to find those pads so she doesn't think she can just potty where ever because potty pads are everywhere?

Just my $0.02. Potty training can be frustrating though!!!

Olivia
 

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8 months is hitting adolescence. ;-) A lot of dogs backslide around this age, my younger border collie certainly did! What I did was take her back to puppy training for a week or two, tethering her to me when she was out of her crate, using the crate when I couldn't keep an eagle eye on her, etc. All it took was a week of this and she "remembered" her potty manners.

I wonder too if there are too many potty pads around? I've never used potty pads so I'm not certain on the training but that might be a problem. Use a couple of potty pads placed in definite places that don't move and are always there. Help her to find those pads so she doesn't think she can just potty where ever because potty pads are everywhere?

Just my $0.02. Potty training can be frustrating though!!!

Olivia
I was going to say basically the same thing! Everyone here except for Maribelle went through this at around the same age. You just have to go back to the basics until she realizes her boundaries haven't changed. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Just my two cents worth... "roaming the upstairs"? well, I think she is a bit young to be left to her own devices. My two are 15 months and I still need to sort of monitor their roaming in a four room area. I remember Tabitha went through a few days when she just "forgot" to use the newspaper. Now, they are both consistently taking themselves to the paper/litterpan. But, at 7 or 8 months they can get really distracted. Also, it may be confusing to have too many pee/poop stations set up. We have just one area and their freedom is limited to how far away they can play and still remember to go there when the time comes. If I am not at home, they are in ex-pen with bed, water, litterpan and room to walk around. Hang in there. It could just be a developmental stage that she will again outgrow in a couple weeks :)
Obviously I gave the wrong impression....my bad! No, Jazz is NOT left to her own devides at ALL. When I said I allowed her the run of the upstairs, what that means is that she has access to her bathroom and a short hallway, and the sitting room that my computer is in. That area of the house is the area *I* primarily live in, and she has access to the area when I'm there and can be with the dogs. Otherwise she's gated in the bathroom or in her crate. I live with my roommate, and I primarily have the upstairs of a large house, whereas my roommate hangs out more downstairs, and we share the kitchen etc. The upstairs part of the house that *I* use is not a large area, by any means, (there are two other bedrooms and a recreation room that I seldom use and the dogs are never allowed into) and the area was introduced to her gradually, moving the barriers over time to where she now has this much space to be in when I'm here to supervise. If I'm at work or at dance or the store etc, she's gated in the bathroom or in her crate. If I'm going to be downstairs for too long, I gate or crate her. She's never left alone, unless I'm running downstairs to get some coffee, or cycle the laundry or something like that.

I wonder too if there are too many potty pads around? I've never used potty pads so I'm not certain on the training but that might be a problem. Use a couple of potty pads placed in definite places that don't move and are always there. Help her to find those pads so she doesn't think she can just potty where ever because potty pads are everywhere?
Livvy, the potty pad locations haven't changed. There's one in the bathroom, one in the hall and one in the sitting room. Since I started potty training Jazz, that's where they've always been and they haven't moved. When it was just Tango, there was just one pad in the bathroom, but when I brought Jazz home, several people here suggested putting several around. (Though I've successfully housetrained many dogs over the years, I've never trained one to pee pads before, so I asked for suggestions.) Actually I take that back...the one in the bathroom I moved slightly, a little closer to the door (we're talking 4 inches here) because that's where she seemed to be inclined to pee.)

The frustration with this is that THIS HAS WORKED, for a while now, where she's been gradually allowed more space and has done really well in it.

8 months is hitting adolescence. A lot of dogs backslide around this age, my younger border collie certainly did! What I did was take her back to puppy training for a week or two, tethering her to me when she was out of her crate, using the crate when I couldn't keep an eagle eye on her, etc. All it took was a week of this and she "remembered" her potty manners.
I was going to say basically the same thing! Everyone here except for Maribelle went through this at around the same age. You just have to go back to the basics until she realizes her boundaries haven't changed.
Really? I don't remember this happening with my other dogs. And Tango was about 7 1/2 months when I rescued him, so he was already IN adolescence I guess. He wasn't housetrained even a little bit, so I was starting from absolute basics with him. But my schedule was different then, so Tango never was gated anywhere during potty training because I was never gone long enough for that to be necessary. He was either crated when I wasn't home, or under my constant supervision.

I wonder, too, if having Tango around isn't a distraction for Jazz? See, when it was just Tango and me, and I was housetraining him, I had a couple adult kids living at home then who of course gave him attention, and my daughter's cockapoo who was older and not inclined to play with abandon the way Tango and Jazz do, so he didn't really have too much to distract him from his training. But Tango and Jazz LOVE to play, and they both whine on either side of the gate or crate when Jazz is confined. So when they're together, I wonder if Jazz is just having too much fun to take the potty breaks she needs. I've tried taking her to her pee pad every half hour, but she just doesn't seem to have that much pee lol! And she's not reliably trained to the "go potty" command either, so that doesn't always work.

<sigh> I'm a bit disheartened, to tell you the truth. I think having Tango first really spoiled me. I didn't know what an EASY dog he is, till I added Jazz and had the comparison.
 

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I think it could be a combination of adolescence as well as distraction from Tango.

I say this because a couple months ago, Brody was playing hard with his ball - rolling it all over, pouncing on it, throwing it around and I was watching him and he kind of squatted and started peeing as he was walking! I screamed NOOOOOOOOOO and grabbed him and whisked him outside and he barely made it to the grass before he squatted for a really long pee. He couldn't wait to get back inside and get his ball.

Maybe the same thing is happening with Jazz and Tango. They are running around playing and Jazz doesn't want to stop and take a potty break. Little kids will do this too. Can't tell you how many times my girls would wet themselves at the playground after they were out of diapers and potty trained! They just didn't want to stop playing to go to the bathroom.

If this is it - you will have to watch them like a hawk and after 30-45 minutes of play, take them outside and make sure Jazz goes before she comes back in. If she doesn't go - then into the crate she goes. Wait awhile and then try again. Then praise like crazy. Hopefully she'll get the idea!!

I know it's frustrating!! Brody wasn't fully potty trained until close to a year.

Hang in there! Just a bump in the road and hopefully everything will be stabilized soon.
 

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It did happen with the majority of mine...BUT some where easier to break of it than others. Meaning, the second I realized it was Matilda who was peeing near the doggy door (and not OUT the doggy door) - I caught her once, corrected her & it didn't happen again. With Milo it was a bit harder to break him. His thing was peeing on my couch (GRR!!). The day he peed on the couch RIGHT behind me, therefor peeing on ME - was my breaking point. I immediately took him, put him out the doggy door say very sternly "OUTSIDE!!" & shut the doggy door so he couldn't come back in for about 2 minutes. Sounds harsh & whether it was necessary or not, he never did it again. LOL I think timing of catching them is key to correcting the behavoir. It may have taken a bit longer with some for me because first I had to figure out who it was if you kwim. LOL Once catching them, keeping an eye on them & correcting them in the act...it didn't take long to break them of it. It wasn't like starting over....

But I do think you need to keep an eye on her & catch her in the act. Once you do that it shouldn't take much for her to realize she's doing wrong. You must have lucked out with Tango. Then again...Mari never regressed so it probably depends on the pup too.
 

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I agree with MChi's. Catching them IN THE ACT is key. Dogs live in the moment. If you catch them when they are doing it - it connects. If you find it later and show it to them, they will often act ashamed, but they are picking up on your emotions and this can often cause them to "hide" the evidence. Peeing behind the sofa, under the bed, etc. It doesn't solve the problem, it often complicates it.

Also, Chi's are very sensitive. I had the weirdest thing happen with Brody. He peed NEXT to the pad instead of on it, so I pointed it out and then sternly put him ON the pad and scolded him and said "you are to go HERE". WELL, he must have associated my disaproval with the PAD because he wouldn't go near it for weeks. He avoided it like the plague. It did force him to become totally potty trained outside, but I really liked having the pad for back up in the house!! However, in his brain, he thought I was mad at him, so he wouldn't go on it.

Really examine exactly how you are disciplining so that they don't get confused. :)
 

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I have had similar issues with my boys.

Nobody had had any accidents in a while and then just the other night, 6 mo. old Baby (Bartholomew) was playing in the kitchen and started to poop! Luckily I was there to say NO, scoop him up and bring him outside to finish. The next morning, as they were waiting by the front door while I was getting their harnesses and leashes organized, 8 mo. old Paco just started peeing right there on the floor. Again, I was grateful to be there to sternly say NO, scoop him up and have him finish outside.

It was like Paco saw Baby go inside the night before and thought maybe that was okay now, so he figured he'd give it a try, lol. Joey did the same thing once or twice when he was about the same age.

Also, like Brody, Joey was playing one time (around that same 8 mo. age) and I guess didn't want to stop, so did the pee/walk thing--it was rather amusing looking back at it now. At the time, I wasn't thrilled, lol.
 

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Awwww...I'm so sorry you are getting frustrated. Try taking her back to puppyhood, catch her in the act if you can and correct as necessary. Cool that the potty pads are the same. Tango might have just been an easier trainee. We all have those dogs that trained so easily that we are spoiled for the next. My Griffin was potty trained by 8 weeks of age, could sit, down, stay, heel, fetch and come reliably at 10 weeks of age. Then I got Sol... and I've been paying for my ease with Griffin. :)

I know it's hard and it makes it hard to enjoy being with them when you feel like all you're doing it cleaning up pee and poop. You're a good owner and you'll get through this!

Olivia
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I agree with MChi's. Catching them IN THE ACT is key. Dogs live in the moment. If you catch them when they are doing it - it connects. If you find it later and show it to them, they will often act ashamed, but they are picking up on your emotions and this can often cause them to "hide" the evidence. Peeing behind the sofa, under the bed, etc. It doesn't solve the problem, it often complicates it.

Also, Chi's are very sensitive. I had the weirdest thing happen with Brody. He peed NEXT to the pad instead of on it, so I pointed it out and then sternly put him ON the pad and scolded him and said "you are to go HERE". WELL, he must have associated my disaproval with the PAD because he wouldn't go near it for weeks. He avoided it like the plague. It did force him to become totally potty trained outside, but I really liked having the pad for back up in the house!! However, in his brain, he thought I was mad at him, so he wouldn't go on it.

Really examine exactly how you are disciplining so that they don't get confused. :)
Well, I must be doing a fine job of not confusing Jazz, because she has NO issues with trying to hide where she pees...there it is, right in the middle of the hallway floor lol! If I don't catch her in the act, I don't say a word. Sometimes I about bite through my tongue in my effort to not get mad at her :D but I don't say or do anything other than quietly go about cleaning up the mess. And she's right there, wagging her tail and trying to climb on my lap as I'm squatting down on the floor wiping up the puddle. :foxes15: So I guess I can be thankful I've not intimidated or scared her in the way I've handled things. ;)

The occasional time I have caught her, I've just told her "NO!" firmly and put her on her pad. Most of the time she doesn't do any more, just looks at me with a "huh?" look.

But I do think you need to keep an eye on her & catch her in the act. Once you do that it shouldn't take much for her to realize she's doing wrong. You must have lucked out with Tango. Then again...Mari never regressed so it probably depends on the pup too.
Awwww...I'm so sorry you are getting frustrated. Try taking her back to puppyhood, catch her in the act if you can and correct as necessary. Cool that the potty pads are the same. Tango might have just been an easier trainee. We all have those dogs that trained so easily that we are spoiled for the next. My Griffin was potty trained by 8 weeks of age, could sit, down, stay, heel, fetch and come reliably at 10 weeks of age. Then I got Sol... and I've been paying for my ease with Griffin.
I really did luck out with Tango, Heather. That much has become very obvious to me. He was, and is, soooooo easy with pretty much everything, not just the potty training. And Olivia? I know EXACTLY what you mean about Griffin vs Sol.....yeah, I feel like I'm paying for Tango's ease with Jazz. :D

OK, so if I'm understanding you all correctly, I need to back things up a bit...or a lot, depending. Take her back to puppyhood, which for me means crating her whenEVER I'm not able to pretty much stand over her and watch her, take her out of her crate for a few minutes every hour (when I'm home) and put her on the pad and tell her to go pee, treat and praise thoroughly and enthusiastically when she goes, let her have a few minutes play time with Tango, then back to the crate, keeping her completely confined the rest of the time. That's what got her to the point she was at before she regressed. So I guess I'm doing that again, huh?
 

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That's what I would do. In theory, if it's an adolescent attitude issue, you will only have to do it for a little while to get her back to where she was.

Good luck!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
That's what I would do. In theory, if it's an adolescent attitude issue, you will only have to do it for a little while to get her back to where she was.

Good luck!!!!
OK, thanks. :D

Wish me luck! <sigh> Here we go.......I'm on it.
 
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