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Discussion Starter #1
i am looking into getting apple started on a raw diet....i never heard of raw diets for dogs until i came onto this forum, ive read alot of the info this site has to offer......i love the idea of an all natural raw diet and was wondering what kind of meal plan i should start her on.......she is about 2 1/2 lbs and just over 4 months old.....(is that pretty average for her age???) pretty much im looking for a raw meal plan for dummies lol i want lots of variety etc so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!
 

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I am still very new to the raw diet my self, and I also only found out about it on this site!
I am mainly feeding honey; chicken, lamb, beef, bones, salmon oil, and dried liver. slowly putting more variety in. Some of the more experienced feeders will come online soon and will be able to help! like I said I am very new and still learning! There is also a whole pray option if you can handle it, I know I cant but each to their own!
 

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Congrats on looking in to raw! How exciting! When we first started feeding raw we fed chicken necks ONLY for 2 weeks. One in the morning & one in the evening or a bit more depending on their weight. Chicken necks are bone heavy--some people don't like them but my crew had perfect stools using them from the first meal on. They immediately had tiny raw poos. It would be very easy to add a bit of boneless chicken breast if you decided to try chicken necks & you noticed your pup having a hard time pooping. More meat=softer poos. The bone is what firms it up.

After a couple weeks of chicken & if all is well (including their stools) you can add in another meat source. Some do pork next, some try beef. Some will say to add the next source VERY slowly by adding a tiny bit to a boney chicken meal. Personally, we never added a new source in slowly. We fed a whole meal of the new source & the only thing that has ever given diarrhea is Matilda when she ate a large amount of smelts(fish) for the first time. Otherwise we've fed quite a bit of different sources w/o any issues. That is with the exception of Maribelle...she doesn't tolerate red meats very well so we only add a VERY tiny amount (.2oz or less) to her white meat meals when we feed them to the other dogs. So far their meat sources include chicken, turkey, duck, quail, pork, beef, goat, rabbit, bisson, fish, venison, chicken eggs....I guess that's it. :)

Don't worry about adding organ in until you are able to feed a couple of meat sources w/o issue. Organ is very important BUT this is one thing you want to add very slowly as a little organ goes a long way. You want to start adding it with a tiny piece (size of your pinky finger nail) with a boney meal. The goal is the 80-10-10 ratio (5% of the organ being liver).

Anyway, the thread Tracy started is SUPER informative & has everything right there as far as information goes. All the information makes it sound very difficult but this diet is very forgiving & nothing needs to be perfect in the beginning. I know when I first started out I was way over thinking things & SO worried I'd not get it right.

There are also alternatives to raw that are very good. While I LOVE raw & feed it primarily, I know a few of us have certain prepackaged foods on hand for the odd time when we don't have time for a raw meal or forget to take something out of the freezer, or even to add a bit of variety. Some people choose to feed these foods instread of going into actually feeding prey model raw....for different reason prey model isn't for everyone. Anyway, ZiwiPeak is a prepackaged food that IMO is the most superior prepackaged food out there. It is essentially raw in a bag & is VERY minimally processed. It contains meat, organs, vitamins & minerals. A GREAT food that I love. You get all the same benefits of raw with the exception of the dental benefit. But you could easily feed a few bone in meals a week to get that. I also love Honest Kitchen...but this contains more fruits & veggies which I don't necessary like. However, I do feed it on occasion just for something different. Another food I know some add to their rotation is Stella & Chewys. I actually picked up our first bag of patties tonight & am excited to try it. My pups haven't yet tried lamb & we got their dandy lamb so it will be a great way to add a new protien source.

We get most of our chicken & bone in pork at our local grocery store but actually order a lot of whole grinds from hare-today.com as other protien sources around here are quite expensive. It's basically the whole prey in a ground food. It's VERY convinient for us with six dogs to feed. Feeding big chunks or bone in or whole prey at every meal would be very time consuming with preparation & clean up so the grinds make it easy. Plus it makes it easy for me to (not) have to figure out correct ratio. What can I say...busy life, working nights, my mind is preoccupied & I really didn't want to have to worry about making sure my pups are getting enough organ. LOL So it's worked great for us in that aspect as well.

We also add nupro for an addative "just in case". That way we are sure they are getting all the nutrients between their raw diet & vitamin. At any rate good luck in your research & decision about the switch! The benefits are amazing. I've seen my 5 dogs go from a premium kibble to raw & the chances are amazing. I also saw Maya go from a crappy grocery store brand that her previous owner was feeding to raw & it was even more amazing. She looks like a different dog to me now. :)
 

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Excellent post by Heather! She covered it all. :)

So go on and get started! Then get back to us with questions. We will help you. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you soooo much for taking the time to write to me .....that was awsome!!!.......so your saying i should start with chicken necks and feed her one for breakfast and one for dinner....but should i be giving her anything else with it or should that be enough for the day??? and will just chicken necks alone for 2 or so weeks be giving her everything she needs or should i be giving her anything else?? sorry if i sound dumb....im super super new to this....ill be happy once i get a better grasp on it all...ill start her on it straight away and continue to research research research.....im excited for smaller stools cause her are gigantic atm....like insane i dont know how they come out of her tiny little body....
 

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You can start out on chicken parts/necks/wings or a cornish hen if you like if you want to plunge right in. Heather started on chicken necks and her pups adjusted great. I started Brody on Nature's Variety pre-made frozen raw nuggets when he was 4 months old. I was just starting out and didn't know very much about the raw diet and was 'scared' to just hop in. A pre-made helped me feel more secure. That is also an option as well.

If I was going to start with a pre-made, I would recommend Stella and Chewy's, Primal, or Bravo. Nature's Variety is OK, but wouldn't be my first choice now that I've done more research. Also, pre-mades do contain veggies which isn't a normal part of the diet. But it is an easy way to ease into raw feeding if you want to try that for a week or so.

Once I decided to take the plunge into 'real' prey model raw, I started Brody on cut up cornish hens and chicken wings cut into 3 sections. You are very bone heavy in the beginning in order to help the stools stay solid during this transition. After about a week on chicken with bones, you can ease in other proteins. I did pork next. It's a great red meat. Then beef. Then organs. This was over a month or two. Now he eats chicken, quail, rabbit, bison, beef, pork, fish (salmon, sardines, mackerel), eggs (raw with shell), venison, etc.

Go slow and don't rush. Keep a close eye on input and output. You may see a big decrease in water consumption as raw is 75% water so they don't go overboard at the water dish. Once stools are stable and the dog is eating well, you can slowly introduce other proteins and variety.

You can check out the 'daily menu' thread and see a sampling of what our dogs are eating every day.

Keep an eye on body condition. If your puppy looks roly poly chubby, cut back a little. If she looks ribby and lean, add more meat. You want to feel ribs and spine, but not see them. Raw fed pups will grow slowly and steadily. They don't have the crazy growth spurts that kibble fed puppies have. She will obtain the size she is genetically programmed to be, but it may take a little longer than a littermate fed kibble.

For supplements, I also do Nupro which is a nice all-around vitamin/mineral supplement powder. NUPROSUPPLEMENT.COM I also do a squirt of salmon oil a couple times a week. Occasionally I add coconut oil or flakes for the omega's they contain. Brody does get an occasional cooked veggie off our plate, but it's not a regular part of his diet.

I also like Hare Today, Gone Tommorow for their good variety of meat/organ/bone grinds and novel proteins. (Quail, rabbit, etc.)

If you want to get an idea of how raw dogs eat, go to youtube and type in raw fed dogs or similar search and you will get thousands of videos of all breeds of dogs from puppies to seniors eating raw. That helped me feel comfortable to see other dogs eat! (The first time your puppy crunches down a chicken wing - it can be strange!)

So ditch the kibble and commit to the raw side! We'll be here to cheer you on and help you out. :)
 

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If I was to start again I may have done chicken necks but I probably would have done chicken necks & added the cornish hen chunks to add a bit more meat or maybe some boneless chicken breast to each chicken neck meal where the necks are so bone heavy. BUT like I said...just the chicken necks were OK for my pups. Some pups would get constipated with all that bone but mine did not. (necks are between 30-50% bone depending on the neck--our necks seemed pretty meaty) I've got to admit I did TOOOOOOOONS of research before I went raw. I actually was overthinking it a bit too much. Never even considered the premade raws to start which may be a good option (I never knew a lot about them back then). I know Kristi added raw extreamely slowly to her Honest Kitchen fed Chi's starting with a couple raw meals a week & now she's doing at least 1 raw meal a day if not more. So starting slow like that is an option as well.

Tracy, I thought pork was a white meat? LOL I'd love to think it was a red meat since Mari can tolerate that OK. :) But I know when it's cooked it's white.... :confused:

As for youtube videos...we have a few on there if you want to take a peek. I know Sarah, the other Heather & Muzby (I forget her name-doh!!) have a few videos of their little carnivores on youtube as well. Here are a couple of our videos though....

Day 6 of raw--chicken necks: (I was super nervous still especially since I had some gulpers on my hands so I was taking more "precautions":
YouTube - MChis Chihuahua Raw Meal Day 6

Cornish Hen meal--we'd been doing raw for 8mo then I think? so I was MUCH more comfy with the idea:
YouTube - MChi Chihuahuas Raw Meal of a Cornish Hen

First whole prey--1wk old quail chicks:
YouTube - MChi Chihuahuas Raw Meal of Quail Chicks


Deer legs my brother dropped off from this years doe he hunted:
YouTube - MChi Chihuahua Raw Fed Meal Deer Legs
 

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Tracy, I thought pork was a white meat? LOL I'd love to think it was a red meat since Mari can tolerate that OK. :) But I know when it's cooked it's white.... :confused:
Ah HA! Marketing wins again!! ;) Pork is a RED meat. All mammals are considered red meat. The pork industry was seeing quite a decrease in sales so they started a marketing campaign saying "the other white meat" in order to pump up their volume. Yep, it worked.

Definitely incorporate some pork into your PMR diet. It's a great one and definitely counts as meaty red meat. It's a fattier meat than beef and way more so than chicken, so it's great for skin/coat and general health. Dogs use fat for energy.

From Wikipedia .... Pork - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its myoglobin content is lower than that of beef, but much higher than that of chicken. The USDA treats pork as a red meat.[16] Pork is very high in thiamin.[17] Pork with its fat trimmed is leaner than the meat of most domesticated animals, but is still high in cholesterol and saturated fat.
In 1987 the U.S. National Pork Board began an advertising campaign to position pork as "the other white meat" — due to a public perception of chicken and turkey (white meat) as healthier than red meat. The campaign was highly successful and resulted in 87% of consumers identifying pork with the slogan. As of 2005, the slogan is still used in marketing pork, with some variations.
 

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Thank you!! I've searched to find out & everything I found says "the other white meat". :roll: But what you say makes perfect sense though. LOL Mari can tolerate pork just fine & she's been eaing it since we started. We use a lot of it so I guess she's getting her red meat. Phew! :lol:
 

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I am still very new to the raw diet my self, and I also only found out about it on this site!
I am mainly feeding honey; chicken, lamb, beef, bones, salmon oil, and dried liver. slowly putting more variety in. Some of the more experienced feeders will come online soon and will be able to help! like I said I am very new and still learning! There is also a whole pray option if you can handle it, I know I cant but each to their own!
You need to feed a secreting organ like kidney too
 

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Discussion Starter #12
so i went to my local butcher and they have ground whole chicken carcasses for dogs......so i bought a block of that.....i figured i could try that....but in the meantime while that defrosts i bought a turkey neck......now its way too big so i had to cut it in sections....but i assumed turkey would be just as good as chicken??? please correct me if im wrong....the only thing that worries me is the bones.....is there any risk of splintering or anything???
 

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so i went to my local butcher and they have ground whole chicken carcasses for dogs......so i bought a block of that.....i figured i could try that....but in the meantime while that defrosts i bought a turkey neck......now its way too big so i had to cut it in sections....but i assumed turkey would be just as good as chicken??? please correct me if im wrong....the only thing that worries me is the bones.....is there any risk of splintering or anything???
No, the risk isn't in the splintering of raw bones. Although turkey bones are harder than chicken bones just because it's a bigger bird. Watch for choking. Just be aware that dogs can choke on anything.... kibble, raw, canned - there's the potential. One of the raw fed dogs here chokes on WATER. ;) So you don't want the turkey neck to get really small and then have her try to swallow it. Always supervise eating, especially for a beginner dog. When I was starting Brody out, I put a towel on my lap and let him chew on the bone-in chicken piece while I was holding it. It helped him learn to gnaw and not to try and just swallow it.

The ground whole chicken carcass sounds interesting! That includes the bones, right? I'd start with that and then let her gnaw on the turkey neck as well. You'll want to start with a couple ounces at each meal, and I'd feed her 3-4 times a day. You'll have to see what works for you and your schedule. An ounce is about the size of an ice cube, maybe a tablespoon? You don't have to be exact on the amounts, just get her eating well and watch her stools. If they are loose, add more bone. If they are dry and crumbly, add more meat. Puppies usually adapt really well. Err on the side of too little food instead of too much as overfeeding will definitely cause diarrhea.

Good luck and feed that puppy some meat! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
thank you soooo much this site is amazing you gave me SO much good info!!!......im sitting here next to apple as i type watching her work her way through this turkey neck and it is fascinating!!! im excited to see some results from this.......she is working so hard at this and its nice to see her buisy doing somthing.....as for the ground chicken it is the entire carcass.....bones meat everything...all ground up and frozen into blocks....i bought just one block to try it out wich was about the size of a brick....and it cost me $1.25 lol....it should last me quite somtime.....im so excited to be starting her on raw!!!
 

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Yay! Yes, the benefit of eating raw goes beyond the good it does for the dog nutritionally..... chewing on that turkey neck is giving her a good workout on her jaws, teeth and her mind as well as she figures out the best way to gnaw on it. A total workout.

A tired puppy is a good puppy. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
*update* raw diet for newbie

soo heres an update on apples new raw diet.....i have her eating turkey neck peices (my butcher only had turkey when i was there but i plan on getting chicken next time) aswell as ground whole chicken carcass`.....the amount im giving her is just estimated and im adjusting it as i go.....although i was a bit worried cause i woke up this morning to apple getting sick.....but after only a couple minutes of being sick she went right back to sleep......and is fine now and eating her raw fine.......i took her being sick as her adjusting to the raw as i have read they sometimes go through a kind of detox......and he stool is already amazing!!!!!!! it looks like mouse poo!!!!!! and befor she was eating her kibble her poos were the size of a great danes i swear!!!!! im soooo excited!!! ahahaha
 

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soo heres an update on apples new raw diet.....i have her eating turkey neck peices (my butcher only had turkey when i was there but i plan on getting chicken next time) aswell as ground whole chicken carcass`.....the amount im giving her is just estimated and im adjusting it as i go.....although i was a bit worried cause i woke up this morning to apple getting sick.....but after only a couple minutes of being sick she went right back to sleep......and is fine now and eating her raw fine.......i took her being sick as her adjusting to the raw as i have read they sometimes go through a kind of detox......and he stool is already amazing!!!!!!! it looks like mouse poo!!!!!! and befor she was eating her kibble her poos were the size of a great danes i swear!!!!! im soooo excited!!! ahahaha
Yay for mouse poo!!!! :) Seriously, some dogs just can't handle all the processing in kibble and it ends up being just let out as waste. Huge piles of it. Their bodies aren't absorbing it like they should. Grains, veggies, fillers.... they just don't need it. And the meat in the kibble (what little there is) is all dried out and cooked and processed into those little pellets and some dogs just don't handle it well. Put them on fresh foods and see the immediate difference, as you have!

Yeah, sometimes there's a bit of vomiting or diarrhea. That's just the adjustment period as her little system gets used to the raw diet. She's doing great already if she's eating well and already pooping well!

Keep up the good work. Get her going for at least a week on the chicken and turkey combo and then you can start adding in other proteins. Puppies can adjust quicker than older dogs so you don't have to go quite as slowly. I'd probably do a few bites of boneless pork or lamb next. You don't need to add organs for at least a month. Just keep monitoring her weight/activity/stools and adjust accordingly.
 
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