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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, here I go. I truly don't understand why there is so much criticisim towards people who want to breed their "pet quality" chis. I myself have rescued/fostered/adopted many species of animals. I have never had a "purebred' (except for the iguana) until I rescued Pearl. She is not up to AKC standards, but I couldn't love her more. She is the most special animal I have ever had the opportunity to share my life with. I can truly see why people want to have chis, registered or not. Some poeple just love the character of the breed. All of the animals I have ever had, whether fostered or adopted, including Pearl (scheduled this month), have been neutered/spayed, all at my expense. With this in mind I hope you see the kind of person I am. I just don't understand why so many of you have a problem with people breeding their chis because they are only pet quality. Some poeple want to have a chihuahua for the character of the breed and don't really care if they conform to the standard or not. Of course this type of dog would not demand top dollar, but as long as bitch and sire are sound I don't understand the problem with it. Please forgive my ignorance about this subject, it's just that i have noted in other threads that it seems to be"bad" to breed your dog if it is not up to standard, and I, loving all animals as I do just don't get it. Some poeple don't have a $1000 for a dog, but $200 for pet quality will make them perfectly happy. As for the argument about rescuing..... most of them have major problems that the average person cannot handle, I know this from experience. So what is the big deal? I want to understand. If it were up to me all pets would come from the animal shelter, but I don't rule the world so I feel there has to be compromise. I hope I don't get my head bit off with this post, I really just want to understand.
 

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i see your post as sincere and inquisitve. i hope this doesn't turn into a heated argument. i'm no moderator but i am going to ask everyone to just answer her question with your opinion and move on, no arguing and telling people their opinions are wrong..... please. :wave:
 

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Good question and maybe I would have used to agree with it being ok to breed pet quality. But now I think it's important to keep the breed standard going.
IMO if it started being ok to breed pet quality pups it would become the norm and the chihuahua wouldnt even look like the chihuahua does today, as the 'not so desirable' traits according to breed standards would be continued to be bred creating a different looking and even behaving dog to what we know today.
Pet quality dogs that have allready been bred for whatever reason are still just as lovely and loved as the breed standard dogs, but i dont agree with breeding pet quality dogs when there are allready so many dogs out there. This is just my opinion that I have formed through seeing/reading various things but I am more than understanding of anyone elses. Hope I didnt make anyone mad!
 

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There is no guarantee that a dog's offspring are going to look, act, or be in any way exactly like their parents. I totally understand wanting that relationship with a puppy who's mother or father you loved for a long time. However, since we do have the choice to breed, and it's not a necessity, I wouldn't ever consider breeding either of my lovely dogs. I don't agree entirely with "only breeding to better the breed" but I am a strong advocate against pet overpopulation, and I've seen too many strays and shelter dogs that I know I could fall in love with enough that I'd never want to breed Sadie or Ritz just so that I could have a false attempt at duplicating them for the future. This reason, if not any other reason should be your motivation. Others recommend against it because diluting the "chihuahua" genetic pool with non-standard genes especially ones that reduce genetic fitness (heart murmurs, shunts, luxating patellas, etc...).

Now, the question becomes here how is this related to humans? Humans breed with other humans with low genetic fitness all the time (cancer, diabetes, baldness...), and isn't the idea of "breeding for the better of the breed" similar to genocide or racial superiority? The act of mating for animals I've come to realize is purely physical and an instinct of survival, they don't have an emotional attachment to their reproductive mates, although they do show "protective" qualities. Humans, on the other hand do, and no one is going to tell them who they should or shouldn't be in love with, and hence who they reproduce with. Thus, breeders are taking the responsibility of ensuring that the Chihuahua breed remains healthy, viable, and has increased fitness from an evolutionary sense. This means that 1,000 of years from now we may have Chihuahuas who live healthy lives through their 20's or even 30's. The only debatable thing is the age of action for fatal genes to show their phenotype, perhaps there is "another" genetic trait which presents at age 25 (where no chi has gone before) which causes acute heart failure. Who knows? But we are doing what we can to extend the length and quality of lives of dogs in future generations.

It's all very confusing to me as well, one thing I don't understand much about it breeding since in California, spay/neuter programs are so well implemented that I haven't seen a pregnant animal in a year.

Well enough philosophical pondering on my behalf tonight. I probably just confused myself even more =)

-Nate
 

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Hi

I agree keep to the facts people and try not to disrespect someone elses opinion

Lol you didnt realise what sort of debate youve started here :lol: but we all love each other so there wont be arguing :wave:

Basically I was the same when I first learnt about chihuahuas etc - I didnt see the harm in breeding pet quality dogs to produce pet quality pups as at the time too me, especially in England there didnt seem enough chihuahuas to go around, but then I started reading etc and found this site and I realise how much I love the chihuahua breed and their personlity they are so different from any other dog and the fact that they are small gives them more spunk - so when people are producing chihuahuas with longer faces , longer legs and up to 12 - 14 pounds (not that their is a problem with bigger chi I to have an 7 pounder lol and I couldnt love him more) you can see how over time our little spunky, saucy, cheeky chihuahuas will no longer be this :wave:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you all for your very kind responses. I agree with Ilovesadie in that overpopulation is reason enough not to breed. I guess I'm too dense to understand the genetics thing, and will just accept that that is what is best! Thanks again everybody.
 

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Maybe I can help explain it using another breed. German Shepards come to mind so I'll use those. About 40 years ago these dogs were very popular in America as pets due to TV shows and movies and backyard breeders, hobby breeders, and undoubtedly puppy mills started breeding any male/female they could put together to produce puppies. Now American German Shepards suffer terribly from arthritis, hip displasia and other diseases and usually have a shorter lifespan. People that show and breed Shepards now usually have stock that has come from Germany and Poland because the gene pool in those dogs was never diluted and they can live longer, pain-free lives.
 

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Tinker said:
Maybe I can help explain it using another breed. German Shepards come to mind so I'll use those. About 40 years ago these dogs were very popular in America as pets due to TV shows and movies and backyard breeders, hobby breeders, and undoubtedly puppy mills started breeding any male/female they could put together to produce puppies. Now American German Shepards suffer terribly from arthritis, hip displasia and other diseases and usually have a shorter lifespan. People that show and breed Shepards now usually have stock that has come from Germany and Poland because the gene pool in those dogs was never diluted and they can live longer, pain-free lives.
yes! it happened with rotties and dalmations too!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I feel really stupid, so please bear with me. I think I may be understanding better, thanks to you. So what I am getting is that a chi with lets say a deer head is basically inferior and has weaker genes? These dogs are more prone to having other genetic defects? If that is true then it does totally make sense to me. Am I on the right track here?
 

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My Girl Pearl- Thanks for asking as I was also wondering about the breeding and standards.


A quick question to whomever can answer this... How do you know if you are bettering(bad use of words.. haha sorry) the breed? I know the standards, but what about defects that you don't know of? Just a question, cuz I was just wondering.


PS- Don't worry, I won't be breeding Dixie(ever) or any dog for that matter :wink: :wave:
 

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I agree the deer head was either the result of a cross breed long ago or possibly a recessive trait from long ago.

How do you know if you are "bettering the breed" or at least holding to standards? With a great deal of hard work and research basically. If you are looking to buy to breed (which some of us are) then insist on seeing the parents, get a copy of the pedigrees of the parents and start searching backwards and forwards to see if the dogs on the pedigrees held true to standards. Then insist on seeing the health records of the parents and a vets statement that they are free of known problems like luxating patella. If anything sets off alarm bells back off. Once your dogs are old enough to breed then evaluate them honestly. Get other opinions. Since no dog is perfect you then start breeding to a dog that is stronger in whatever area your dog is weakest in. Then you cull like mad and sell pet quality pups with spay/neuter contracts.
 

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Tinker said:
I agree the deer head was either the result of a cross breed long ago or possibly a recessive trait from long ago.

How do you know if you are "bettering the breed" or at least holding to standards? With a great deal of hard work and research basically. If you are looking to buy to breed (which some of us are) then insist on seeing the parents, get a copy of the pedigrees of the parents and start searching backwards and forwards to see if the dogs on the pedigrees held true to standards. Then insist on seeing the health records of the parents and a vets statement that they are free of known problems like luxating patella. If anything sets off alarm bells back off. Once your dogs are old enough to breed then evaluate them honestly. Get other opinions. Since no dog is perfect you then start breeding to a dog that is stronger in whatever area your dog is weakest in. Then you cull like mad and sell pet quality pups with spay/neuter contracts.
Thank you for clearing that up with me!! :wave: :wave:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I have learned so much from all of you! I really have never desired to breed, and especially when I can see how much is involved. I was curious about it from reading different posts here, many of which were negative. I do think I have a somewhat better understanding now, and a great respect for the breeders that do folow the rules. I can see also why the pedigreed dogs are so expensive. In my ignorance I always thought that only people who wanted to show their dogs needed to be concerned with the standards and the papers. Thanks for the enlightenment!
 
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