[OzChi]

I thought Chloe's socialization issues were vastly improved but obviously I was wrong.

She used to be scared of all new people and all new dogs. I did puppy school with her and I walk her round the neighbourhood and to the dog park almost every day and we are constantly stopped by people wanting to pat the dogs. I also take her to my mum's place about once a month where there are two other dogs and a cat and we go to the pet supply every couple of weeks where she lets some of the staff she knows pat her.

First she began to approach new people, then really quiet dogs who let her approach in her own time. We spent this weekend at my parents and she would come to either mum and dad when they called her (although she would pee a bit) and she even approached the cat. She doesn't like my mum's rowdy maltese x toy poodle puppy because she jumps all over her (but she doesn't seem to mind when Axle does this) but by day 2 she wasn't growling at her anymore. I really thought she had improved a lot.

Well today an old friend of my hubby's is in town and since he's got the day off he invited her over to see our new house. He just rang me to say how badly behaved Chloe is being. She will only come out of her igloo to growl and bark at poor Leanne. She also pees everywhere when my hubby holds her for Leanne to pat. Can they just take a dislike to someone or does this show that I'm not as far along in overcomming her issues as I thought? Could it be that she usually meets new people on neutral territory and this is now someone in her house?

 

[LaceyGirl]

My ex-boyfriend's mother had 2 chihuahuas (it's actually his fault I fell in love with the breed). One of them, the female, was extremely territorial. They could bring her anywhere and she'd be very friendly and calm and cool and collected. However, if someone came into the home (even people she knew), she would growl and snap at them and turn into a monster.
My guess is that Chloe's just reacting to being at home versus being in public.

 

[Angel1210]

Well, Angel isn't very friendly to strangers. But this past weekend we sent to my son's house. His wife had surgery and her mother came up from Texas. I was afraid to bring him with us, but boy did he surprise me! He let her pet him and didn't even snap once (except when food came out!) I suspected it was because it wasn't his "turf!"

So, yeah, they are very territorial!

 

[Jennmay]

Most likely just protecting her home. And some dogs just do not like some people.

 

[jesuschick]

It sounds to me like hubby and friend may have been the socialization fail.

Anyone new who comes over should be instructed to absolutely ignore her. I swear, people try and try and try with Ruby and those who followed my guidance to act like she is not barking and is not there she had decided to like MUCH more quickly than the ones who over and over say, "she does not like me", "why doesn't she like me?", "oh, watch, I will get her to like me because all dogs love me". My mom (she is 80 so I give her grace) actually said "I do not like that one (pointing to Ruby) she is mean". Ruby is not mean. Not even a little. She is afraid. We have worked with Behaviorists and it is just how she is wired. We frankly can work with her to help her be comfortable or choose to rehome her because while we can help her, we will not change her. Clearly, we would not rehome her but I could understand that it might be an option for some people who perhaps got only one dog, have children and want a fun, energetic dog who does not frighten their children.

People who insist, keep reaching for her and try and try make it MUCH worse. It is like trying to coax a shy 2 year old (human) who is hiding in her mama's skirt come out. They will come out when they want to and when they feel safe.

Urinating around strangers or perceived danger is a sign of fear and submission.

They needed to have let her be. Bark if she needed to. She would have seen hubby be relaxed with the guest which would have signaled there was no threat. I am not saying that she would have flown into the lady's lap and kissed her face-Ruby would never do that. Ruby barks but wags her tail. She will stretch her whole body toward a person yet not get close to them. Thankfully, we have not pushed her so she does not escalate to biting. But, she would if we did. It was explained to us that she WANTS to feel safe/love people and be like the others but she just cannot bring herself to. Think of someone who waits and saves to parachute. The day comes, they excitedly go up but just cannot bring themselves to jump once the door is opened. That is Ruby.

I can promise that if the lady came over again today the cycle would begin again-or worse because she will not have forgotten yesterday. Unless the lady today ignored her and just carried on with the visit. Then, she would have calmed and come out. Again, maybe not how people expect or want but in a way that she can. Not to sound sad or anything but we know that this is who and how Ruby is. We are not going to make her like Hope and Eden. Ever. So, we have to love her and get others to respect her just how and where she is.

You CANNOT force a shy/fearful dog to not be so. It will work in the reverse.

Just my thoughts. My LONG and rambling thoughts! Haha!

 

[Bandit]

Karen thank you so much for that post. I think it will help me a lot. I don't think that Bandit is the same level of shy as Ruby, but he is shy. People are always wanting to pet or touch him. He gets attention when we go out, because of his size and coloring. (His size is due to the area we are in - people walk big dogs, the little ones are left at home.) He is always ducking behind me when we are out and people approach - now I know that telling them that is just how he is is ok.

He does very well with my parents. I got Bandit at the beginning of Nov. We went to their house for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and in March. They were here in Feb. and will be again this weekend, so he sees them enough to know them. He also seems to do well with other people if I am not around - I left him at the vet for his neuter and when I picked him up they said that he spent a good portion of the day being carried around by the staff. When we are out he will approach cats (if they will let him), but not dogs.

Anyway - thank you.

 

[susan davis]

Ruby is just like Emmie. I usually put her in her pen, where she retreats into her crate, and wait until whom ever is settled. I tell them to pet Zarita, and usually Emmie will come out then. She will not let anyone pet her though. My cleaning lady, after almost 4 years can quickly pet her once, and then she is gone. Ignoring these dogs is the best thing you can do. They will come up to the person when THEY are ready, not when we are ready!!! Sue

 

[jesuschick]

I understand! It is SO my nature (I was this way with my human kids) to say, "get over it", "be friendly".

I know that I did that with my son who is MUCH more shy and introverted than me (well, almost everyone is more shy and introverted than me...haha!) and I was scolded by a child behaviorist that I was trying to make him be like me and that would never happen. I perceived how I am as normal (yikes) and thought that he was just being stubborn and I could encourage him out of it. That is like trying to convince a shark to just nibble. It is what it is.

The good news is that my son is 29 years old, has an amazing career and is a wonderful husband and a sweet daddy! I figure that since I did not ruin him I should be golden with these little dogs!

 

[Christabelle]

Karen, your last post made me laugh! I think you are fabulous!

I also agree with you 100%. My oldest son is always trying to "make"
Mimi like him and I'm always hiding her away from him lol.

 

[AussieLass]

I never ask or demand that my pups allow anyone to get close, hold or pet them, especially someone unfamiliar. Personally, the less they are inclined to interact with, or allow a complete stranger to pet them the better, as far as I'm concerned - less risk of being stolen etc.

I prefer my dogs to go about their business ignoring all people other than immediate family & close, regular friends in my home. They do not bark or carry on when a stranger comes and, if they did, I would immediately confine them to "their room", aka my bedroom so peace & serenity reigned supreme for ALL involved.

I do, however, hand them over to regular visitors they know for cuddles and they're absolutely fine with that. Once on someone's lap for belly rubs pats etc. they love it if I place them there, which I've been doing since I got them, so therefore at one stage these people were complete strangers. They will not, however, ever go up to even regular house guests who stay here semi-permanently or even family voluntarily asking to "get up". If they attempt to reach down & attempt to pick them up, they will run off, again my preferable action.

I would guess yours was being both territorial and wary of the stranger in her patch - do you often have strangers/friends dropping in, or is it a fairly rare occurrence? Does she behave like this with all other strangers/friends or just this female?

The one thing I've learned about Chi's, as opposed to any other breed I've ever owned, is that they will only go to whomever they want, whenever they want if/when they want to be petted - mine are all super independent, not clingy at all and are not constantly crawling all over me licking and being pests until we're actuallly invited to have a "love-in". The "love-in lasts for a few minutes, then they'll either lay down and sleep a foot or so away from me on my bed, or climb down the stairs and go play some more, returning when they feel like it. I can sit in bed eating a meal, they'll sit a foot away watching intently but will not beg nor take a step towards me, nor make a sound asking for a tidbit - this is just their natural behaviour, they were not trained to behave thus.

In a nutshell, I may be wrong here, but I don't believe it's in any Chi's nature to go to a complete stranger seeking affection, nor be happy about a complete stranger touching them, or trying to. I would also be very abrupt with strangers on the street stopping me and trying to pet them when I know this is not what they want, ditto pet stores etc. I go into - I don't fawn over other's dogs and expect the same from others!

 

[OzChi]

Thanks for all the info Karen! Yes hubby did keep picking Chloe up and bringing her over to his friend. I guess it's because we're so used to Axle who is extremely outgoing and will jump on peoples laps and give them kisses the moment he meets them - I guess he's the unusual one, not Chloe. She has gradually become ok when she can approach people/dogs on her own terms but I guess being forced to interact with a stranger and it being in her own home was just too much for her. I will let hubby know that in future she is to be left to come out when she feels like it!

Aussie Lass -

mine are all super independent, not clingy at all and are not constantly crawling all over me licking

this is so different than mine! Every night I have both dogs sleeping in my lap on the couch, they will never just sit near me. They love to lick my face (and in my ears) and if I get up to pour a drink or something they will always follow me. Whenever I go upstairs they patiently wait at the bottom for me to come back (except if I've tucked them into bed) and even if i've only been gone for 5 minutes they act like it's been all day. I know it's clingy and it would pri=obably drive other people crazy but its probably the thing I love most about my Chi's.

 

[jesuschick]

I also posted this some time back. Perhaps you will get some tips here as well if you do not mind digging through my posts!
http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chi-chat/67104-shy-fearful-dog-aka-ruby-behaviorists.html