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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am not having my puppy for a month. I was interested to know that when i get her can i carry her out into town etc or is there any airborne deseases she can catch before being fully vaccinated? As i want to socialise her as much as possible. Ive had conflicting advice about this so any help would be much appreciated!
:D And if i take her should i take a pee pee pad for her to go to the toilet? :oops:
 

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I would be extremely careful taking your new pup anywhere before she is fully vaccinated. There are so many diseases out there they can be exposed to. I am not sure about airborne diseases. I'm sure one of the other posters could answer that for you.

Good luck with you new furbaby - be prepared to br hopelessly in love with the little tyke! :lol:
 

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I have had Gadget since he was 3 weeks old and I have taken him every where with me and He is perfectly healthy.... Has not been sick a day in his little life...

I didn't let him be on the ground until he got his last shots last week.. he is almost 5 months now.

The thing you need to do is keep him warm.

It is far better to socialize them with people when they are young...

Gadget loves people... very young to very old... That is the way I wanted it.. There are people he just doesn't like.. But I have always listened to my dogs when they don't like somebody it is usually because they are not good people... not to say that this is the way all dogs are...

Good luck and God bless
 

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Bordatella bronchisepta, Distemper Virus, and Canine Parainfluenza Virus are the real airborne respiratory you want to worry about and the 3 main causes of "kennel cough" in dogs. In a very young dog, it can cause upper respiratory (tracheobronchitis) and lower respiratory infections that quickly escalate to bronchal pneumonia. I would definately wait to socialize your pup with unknown dogs until a week after all the shots. If you must socialize before then, do it in the safety of your own home ONLY with dogs you know to be healthy and fully vaccinated, and not until after a Bordatella and second DHPP vaccine has been given.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I know i will be hopelessly in love with my little girl when i get her. I just cant wait! I havent seen her at all yet. But i know she has white feet,a white chin and tip of her tail and the rest of her is cream.Shes long haired.Almost 4 weeks old. The breeder thought about keeping her. But because she liked me so much when we spoke she is letting me have her. Im delighted! :D
Thanx so much for all the excellent advice! Its much appreciated. :) :wink:
 

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This is what I was told by my vet when I got my girls...

Basically the pup can only be outside where no other dogs have been so No dog parks, no parks of any kind, nowhere that other dogs can go to.
Your backyard is fine but watch your pup so she doesnt start eating things like dirt or plants. A friends yard is also fine if you know that there hasent been other dogs there.
My vet said its fine too if you want to take your pup to a friend's who has dogs just as long as they are fully vaccinated and up-to-date.
My vet really doesnt like the Bordatella vaccine...i have had a couple vets say it really doesnt work...that they can give the vaccine and your pup can still get kennel caugh. They really only reccommend it when you are going to puppy classes or if you are boarding your dog, otherwise they dont reccommend getting it.
Also read the article about lepto here http://chihuahua-people.com/viewtopic.php?t=5020
Some vets will put the lepto vaccine in with the distemper and that can be extremely dangerous to your pup. Read this and make sure you ask the vet you will be going too (probably before you get your little girl....kindof shop around for the best vet) if their vaccines have lepto because you dont want it. Dont feel bad asking the vet questions. Only go to the vet you feel has a good handle on small breeds...you would be suprised how many dont know anything about little dogs.
A lot of the articles are great to read here....if you havent I suggest reading them.
Best of luck when you get your little girl! You will love her the second you see her :D We must see pictures when you get some!

-Jessica
 

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Angel5218 said:
My vet really doesnt like the Bordatella vaccine...i have had a couple vets say it really doesnt work...that they can give the vaccine and your pup can still get kennel caugh.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but vaccinations are not immunities to viruses or infections, they just reduce the severity of the infection if it does occur by building up antibodies to the viruses or antigens. Also, kennel cough is caused by a multitude of different viruses/bacteria that are just clumped together and called 'kennel cough' the most common being distemper, parainfluenza, and bordatella bronchisepta, so how did your vets determine that it was the Bordatella vaccine that wasn't working versus the DHPP? Were there any cultures done on the dogs that had kennel cough and I'm interested in the results!

I'm really interested to know, since we recommend Bordatella annually to every 6 months in our area which is widely endemic for kennel cough, with Bordatella being the most common infection seen. If there is a change in the game that we should be aware of, I would love to know so I can talk to our medical director about it. We are very vaccine-use conscious and try and stay on top of all the current research regarding vaccine use.

Thanks! -Nate
 

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ilovesadie said:
Angel5218 said:
My vet really doesnt like the Bordatella vaccine...i have had a couple vets say it really doesnt work...that they can give the vaccine and your pup can still get kennel caugh.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but vaccinations are not immunities to viruses or infections, they just reduce the severity of the infection if it does occur by building up antibodies to the viruses or antigens. Also, kennel cough is caused by a multitude of different viruses/bacteria that are just clumped together and called 'kennel cough' the most common being distemper, parainfluenza, and bordatella bronchisepta, so how did your vets determine that it was the Bordatella vaccine that wasn't working versus the DHPP? Were there any cultures done on the dogs that had kennel cough and I'm interested in the results!

I'm really interested to know, since we recommend Bordatella annually to every 6 months in our area which is widely endemic for kennel cough, with Bordatella being the most common infection seen. If there is a change in the game that we should be aware of, I would love to know so I can talk to our medical director about it. We are very vaccine-use conscious and try and stay on top of all the current research regarding vaccine use.

Thanks! -Nate
Nate, I'm so happy to read this. My daycare lady always gives me a hard time for allowing Lily to get the Bordatella vaccination, saying the dog can still get kennel cough. But, as you say, the severity of the infection is reduced... so Lily will once again get her annual Bordatella vaccination next month.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Excellent advice...thanx Jessica :)
However...i am confused as ive never heard of the Bordatella(?) vaccine. I was told that my puppy will have a combined vaccine at 10 weeks(is the bordatella in this?),then the booster at 12 weeks. Plus ive never heard of a vaccine every 6 months. :)
 

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Bordatella is not combined with the others, since it is an optional one only given in endemic areas. If it is required, it is usually given at 12 weeks, and then every year, unless the dog is in high risk situations, then recommended every 6 months.

Ask your vet what is best in your area, they will give you a better idea of what to do. Los Angeles is a hotspot for kennel cough, so our recommendations are to do it more frequently if necessary.
 

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The vets told me that there is research coming out that shows that the bordatella isnt as effective as the other vaccines. I actually found this out first hand because I did vaccinate my dogs with bordatella (before a stay at the vets) and a month later they ended up catching it. Now I had head the vaccine wasnt very effective before hand, but I was required to vaccinate them before the vet stay and when they caught it again I was told by the vets I worked for at TOPS that dogs can catch bordatella even if they were vaccinated...that the shot doesnt do much to protect them.

Now I cannot bring up any articles to show you because I am not a vet, but I will be happy to ask the vets tomorrow why we dont reccommend the vaccine unless its requested and what research is being done that would cause them to think the vaccine doesnt work. I have been to three different vet offices and all three told me the same thing so I took it to heart. Besides the one time none of my girls *knock on wood* have gotten kennel caugh.

OH, i also remember one vet saying that there were so many different strands of viruses out there classified as 'kennel caugh' and the bordatella vaccine only covers one strand...again i cannot back this up besides saying that this came from a very respected vet...one that has been intervied in Dog World magazine.

Again let me ask tomorrow and get back to you with specifics :wink:
 

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Angel, I am not in unconditional support of Bordatella vaccine, but would like to reiterate a few things that it seems got lost in between my last posts.

I already mentioned those other viruses in my other post, distemper and parainfluenza are the other main causes of kennel cough. Without published research or actual bacterial/fungal/viral cultures done on specific cases (which is expensive and almost never done for routine kennel cough) no one knows what virus or bacteria causes a specific case of kennel cough, therefore they can't conclude that it is the Bordatella vaccine that isn't working versus parainfluenza or mild case of distemper.

Bordatella bronchisepta, Distemper Virus, and Canine Parainfluenza Virus are the real airborne respiratory you want to worry about and the 3 main causes of "kennel cough" in dogs.
I also mentioned that the vaccine doesn't provide immunity, no vaccine does. It just decreases the severity of infection if one does occur. The definition of a vaccine by nature is to provide protection not by acting as a "force field" against vaccines, but to build up the body's natural antibodies against a particular antigen so that when infection does occur, it is not significant. Things can vary the efficacy of vaccines such as age given, state of health when given, individual immune systems, etc...

vaccinations are not immunities to viruses or infections, they just reduce the severity of the infection if it does occur by building up antibodies to the viruses or antigens. Also, kennel cough is caused by a multitude of different viruses/bacteria that are just clumped together and called 'kennel cough' the most common being distemper, parainfluenza, and bordatella bronchisepta
Any dog could be vaccinated one day and get kennel cough the next, but the severity of the infection will be decreased because of the boosted immune response provided by the vaccination. The recommendations on Bordatella vaccination I made clear were specific to the Los Angeles endemic area, not Illinois or any other area, which is why I also said, check with your vet since recommendations vary from area to area.

Ask your vet what is best in your area, they will give you a better idea of what to do. Los Angeles is a hotspot for kennel cough, so our recommendations are to do it more frequently if necessary.
Not trying to start a debate, but from your post it sounds like you are indicating I am giving bad advice and overlooking my previous posts, and yes I would love to see the research. =)

Thanks! I appreciate the good advice that is being passed back and forth, after all we are all just here to help. -Nate
 

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Lol thanx...I am quite tired and it doesnt shock me that I missed a good chunk of your post...i am sorry about that.
Its a good thing to discuss...there are such differing oppinions about the matter and its good to find out the facts. Heck there are people who still get the 6month heartgurad vaccine (dont remeber if you used that or not). That has been banned in some states but isnt in others. Luckly the bordatelly vaccine hasnt been shown to cause death, but I am also curious to see this research my old vet mentioned.
Then again, why did the vet doing Tequila's knee surgery require the bordatella vaccine if it was shown not to work.....gosh i am too tired to think...lol!
Again let me see if there are any articles on the matter and post them. I am willing to bet you are right and it just depends on the location 8)
 

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Angel, what we go by is closely following research done at the major veterinary universities, and following explicitly the guidelines that are published each year. This is much more scientific and surefire way to go about it than by matter of opinion or "gut feeling". I think that if any veterinarian is asking you to give a vaccine not recommended by scientific research based on their "intuition" it should be a big red flag. Likewise, if a vet is advising you not to give a recommended vaccine like parvo, you should also be concerned.

Unfortunately Bordatella is in the gray area since it's "recommended based on risk" so it's a matter of trusting your veterinarian to make the right decision.
 

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Just checked with a friend concerning the research being done regarding Bordatella vaccine ineffectiveness, was reminded that adenovirus, canine herpes, reovirus, and mycoplasma are also major causes of kennel cough.

There was a study spearheaded in 2003 by the association of greyhound racers that wanted drug manufactuers to produce a new Bordatella vaccine because a larger percentage of their racing stock was being vaccinated bi-annually and many were still getting "kennel cough". Currently this study is privately funded ($275,000 contributed) since there is no controlled evidence that indicates that there is a problem with the vaccine versus a problem with the way greyhound racers are housed, vaccines adminsitered, stored, etc. The only major university that has expressed interested in the study is not the United States.

Not all vaccinations will prove effective as vaccine failures can occur. Causes for vaccine failure can include improper storage and handling, incorrect administration, and the inability of a dog to respond due to a debilatated condition or concurrent illness that stresses the immune system. Giving too many vaccinations at the same time can cause immune system overload and thus a failure for the body to produce antibodies. Streching out vaccines by dividing a single dose between two dogs may not give the protection needed, thus rendering the vaccine ineffective. Finally, if a dog is already infected with a infectious disease, vaccinating it will not alter the course of the disease.

For this reason, this study hasn't been taken seriously by most pharmaceutical companies and universities, the occurances of it "not working" were not in controlled environment or even in a hospital, but in the kennels where racing greyhounds are kept. It is a big money making industry so it's logical that they have a business interest in keeping their animals healthy, but if they spent their money on better living conditions, perhaps they wouldn't have so many outbreaks.

No vaccine is perfect, but intranasal Bordatella vaccine has shown to work effectively in most animals.

If there is any other studies you are aware of please let me know. I'm trying to ingest all the information I can.

-Nate
 

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Talked to one of my vets today and found out some information. There isn't any current research being done because Bordatella is not a life threatening bacteria. It's not as effective as they would like it to be (and even question their own methods of determining effectiveness since without culture/viral ID you can't determine which virus(es)/bacteria(s) caused the cough) but have never seen a case of kennel cough in a vaccinated dog that developed into pneumonia. Good enough cause for me to vaccinate my dogs.
 
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