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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone! I subscribe to a blog from Jan Rasmusen, the author of the book (Scared Poopless), and she sends out great articlesthat are very informative.
Most of her articles focus on holistic dog treatments, feeding raw, and over-vaccination. The website is truth4dogs.com and dogs4dogs.com

Here's a shorter one on over vaccination and what happens to our beloved pets as a result. I lost my first dog (chihuahua) Gino to over vaccination at only 1.5 years old.

Did you know you really don't need annual vaccinations? And there is something called titer testing to show antibodies present in the blood so you don't need re-vaccinate? Titer testing holds up for grooming, boarding, dog day care, ect.

Enjoy!!

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2012/...il&utm_campaign=Feed:+Truth4dogs+(Truth4Dogs)
 

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Thank you for posting! Over-vaccination can have terrible consequences that many people are not aware of.

I know most people here do not vaccinate any more than absolutely required. I got Toby his puppy shots and first rabies shot. From now on, I will get titers for everything but rabies, which is required by law every three years. Many people here do the same thing, or a similar minimal vaccination schedule.

May I ask what happened to poor Gino?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well we got Gino at 8 weeks old for Christmas (my fiance bought him for me) and he was the love of my life! Long store short, he went for his annual booster (he was 1 and a half), we did the all-in-one plus rabies. About a month later he started limping on one leg. We went to all the local vets, I mean ALL because everyone said he pulled a muscle and he's FINE. Then when the limping didn't stop and started shifted from one leg to the other, they decided it was definitely lyme disease. So after treating for lyme disease, guess what? Still limping! So then we got stronger antibiotcs and he broke out into these crazy bumps all over his ears and head (I'll post pics after work, they're saved on my Ipad). Vets said he's allergic to penicillin. One night after no resolution of bumps, limping, and a fever of 106 degrees, we went to doggie ER (they knew us on a first name basis) and finally gave us a referral to Purdue University Animal Hospital. Turned out Gino had a wbc (white blood cell count) of 46,000! He had a fever, heart murmur, lost the ability to blink his eyes (had to lube them every 2 hours), had to see a dermatologist, bladder perforation, ect!! They diagnosed him with an autoimmune disorder and he went on high dose steroids. We then went to a hollistic vet who tried to wean him off the prednisone and then he relapsed twice. Needless to say he did 6 months and $10,000 all from a vaccine. RIP Gino ;)
 

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Oh my goodness. What a tragic story! I am so sorry for you. That is unbelievable. My vet tried to get me to do all the puppy vaccines (his last all in one and his rabies) at once, then got mad when I refused! I cannot even imagine the pain that you and poor Gino went through. At least his memory lives on through you and your very important message.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you! If it weren't for Gino, I would still be feeding Eukanuba, vaccinating every year and giving heartworm and flea prevention. It was a hard way to learn, but in the end my chihuahuas will all have a better life thanks to him and we rescued mojo as a result too!! He got saved from being put to sleep due to irresponsible owners and he's the most amazing little man! Thanks again. I get all choked up talking about him. ;(
 

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Aw. I'm so sorry to hear that you had to go through such a horrible experience. Poor little man. I'm glad you can look at the positives that came out of it though. Hugs from me and Mylo!
 

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I'm glad you posted this and I hope that people will read and research and learn about the dangers of over vaccinating.

We do a series of puppy shots and ONE rabies shot after 6 months and then titer. (We have a legal exemption for rabies because of a reaction). But Brody's titer show full and complete immunity against parvo, distemper, and rabies and he is now almost 4 years old. He will never be vaccinated again unless his titers show that he needs it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That's what we do too! I'm not exempt by law for rabies but I'm not getting it done ever again anyway! I don't care if it's required by law bc I don't board, groom, nor do my dogs bite anyone. I had titers done on mojo and Lola almost three years ago. I will titer again in a couple years just to please my vet, lol. It's so sad that most people don't know about proper vaccinating, so I try to inform people all the time, hopefully preventing them from what Gino went through.
 

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Same for us.

Each girl got their series of 3 puppy shots and a few months later 1 rabies shot. No "boosters".

They will get the 3 year rabies later this fall and titers from then on.

They are covered given that they received a dosage suitable also for a Bernese Mountain Dog and they are 3.3-4.0 pounds.
 

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Thanks for sharing! Odie is "due" for her shots, and I was considering getting just the rabies for awhile, but I think I'm now dead set on no vaccines. She's had everything as a puppy. She needs a check up anyway, so I'll just ask them to titer. I guess the only bummer would be if we wanted to take her with us out of country, which could be a real possibility in the next few years.

Does anyone in Canada know where you can find vaccination laws online? I've searched and searched, and haven't been able to come up with anything.
 

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Thank you! If it weren't for Gino, I would still be feeding Eukanuba, vaccinating every year and giving heartworm and flea prevention. It was a hard way to learn, but in the end my chihuahuas will all have a better life thanks to him and we rescued mojo as a result too!! He got saved from being put to sleep due to irresponsible owners and he's the most amazing little man! Thanks again. I get all choked up talking about him. ;(

Wow, thanks for sharing your story. That is so sad about little Gino. I had no idea about any of this and would have just done what my vet recommended and not asked questions. Well, I wouldn't have known what to ask. Khorra is due for her last set of puppy shots next week and I'm going to wait to give her her rabies shot. You mentioned heartworm and flea prevention. Does this mean you do not give that? I've been told that I'm supposed to start Khorra on that soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Wow, thanks for sharing your story. That is so sad about little Gino. I had no idea about any of this and would have just done what my vet recommended and not asked questions. Well, I wouldn't have known what to ask. Khorra is due for her last set of puppy shots next week and I'm going to wait to give her her rabies shot. You mentioned heartworm and flea prevention. Does this mean you do not give that? I've been told that I'm supposed to start Khorra on that soon.
I would finish her last set of shots and then wait at least 4 weeks to do her rabies so they are not too close together. I personally do not give flea or heartworm prevention but I also live in Northwest Indiana where it's not warm year round. I recently went to a seminar on heartworm prevention and vaccinations. For my climate, the vet said if u want do give heartworm prevention, to start in may and give it every 45 days (not 30) thru September. This is the only time heartworm is possible. Here is a link that explains it all. Also, the book Scared Poopless talks a lot about it. I would rather pay to treat heartworm (yes its about $700) than give a preventative medication that is harmful to their bodies but this is Just my personal opinion based on what i have read I've also never had in issue with fleas for any of my chi's so I don't worry about it. I guess I will have to cross that bridge if I ever get there.

The sad thing is vets are scared u won't come back for a checkup if u don't vaccinate, this is y they send us reminders. Funny, bc I spend more money there now not vaccinating and don't mind bc I'm doing the right thing. Instead, my pack gets annual bloodwork, titers every 5 years, and denials when necessary. The AAHA vaccination guidelines even say not to repeat the core vaccines more often than every 3 years and the vets are still pushing yearly vaccines. It's really scary. Please feel free to ask any questions, I really am passionate about this topic especially and want to try to help anyone I can! ;)

If you get a chance, google the book Scared Poopless, u can read excerpts from
It for free online. And it's narrated by Jan's Maltese, so it's an easy read!

Hope this info helps! Again, this is just my personal opinion based on what I've read and learned through my experiences.
 

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Thanks for the info! I will definitely check out that book. It is so confusing trying to do what's right for them. I will definitely wait on the rabies shot. Not sure what to do about fleas and heartworm. I didn't grow up in Texas, I grew up in Michigan where you also didn't have to worry year round about the fleas. I'm really not sure how the fleas are out here in my area. I'll have to start asking around. I don't have any friends with dogs in my immediate area.

So, if you don't use flea prevention, what do you do to treat it if they do get fleas and then what do you do to keep the fleas away? Also, for heartworm, if you don't have them on prevention for that, how often do you need to test for it?
 

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A couple questions from a new mom of an adult dog?

1. What should she get each year in terms of shots/vaccinations since she is four years old (under a limited vaccination plan)?

2. I give her Trifexis monthly (ingested pill for flea, heartworm and intestinal parasite presentation). I live in the hot muggy south.

3. Titer testing? All I know is the PetPlan insurance I got doesn't cover it.

Thank you for this information. I never knew any of this about vaccination. This is a great site!
 

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A couple questions from a new mom of an adult dog?

1. What should she get each year in terms of shots/vaccinations since she is four years old (under a limited vaccination plan)?

2. I give her Trifexis monthly (ingested pill for flea, heartworm and intestinal parasite presentation). I live in the hot muggy south.

3. Titer testing? All I know is the PetPlan insurance I got doesn't cover it.

Thank you for this information. I never knew any of this about vaccination. This is a great site!
1. In the USA, I would get just the rabies every three years as required by law and draw titers every 1-3 years.

2. I live in North Carolina and am currently dealing with fleas, even though he is on preventative. In this area of the country, I don't think there is a choice but to use a preventative.

3. Drawing titers is a way to tell how many antibodies are left from previous vaccines. More antibodies means more immunity. So, if the titers show that a dog has plenty of antibodies, there is no need to re-vaccinate. If the titers show that a dog does not have enough antibodies to protect it, then you know you need to re-vaccinate. If I remember correctly, the insurance will cover it up to the price of traditional vaccines. Since titers are more expensive, you will have to pay more despite insurance. But it is well worth it to protect our babies from over vaccination.

I hope that helped.


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Thanks for the info! I will definitely check out that book. It is so confusing trying to do what's right for them. I will definitely wait on the rabies shot. Not sure what to do about fleas and heartworm. I didn't grow up in Texas, I grew up in Michigan where you also didn't have to worry year round about the fleas. I'm really not sure how the fleas are out here in my area. I'll have to start asking around. I don't have any friends with dogs in my immediate area.

So, if you don't use flea prevention, what do you do to treat it if they do get fleas and then what do you do to keep the fleas away? Also, for heartworm, if you don't have them on prevention for that, how often do you need to test for it?
Well, I live in NC and let me tell you that fleas in the South are nothing to take lightly. In most areas of the South, flea preventative is required simply to prevent an infestation. I use Vectra 3d. It works against fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes (which carry heartworm). I give 1/2 a dose every 30-60 days depending on the time of year. I also give Toby heartguard plus to prevent heartworms. He has never had reactions to any of this. Many people prevent and treat fleas with diatomaceous earth, which is completely organic and safe. I am actually picking some up today for around the house. I don't know where you live, but being from Florida and now living in North Carolina, I don't mess with these bugs. For me, it's all about prevention. Hell, he's on prevention and I still had a minor flea issue.

I would weigh the pros and cons. Is the risk too high to take? If you don't have a flea/tick/mosquito problem where you live, maybe you don't need to worry. It really depends on your preferences, your dog, and the environment that the dog is in.


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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the info! I will definitely check out that book. It is so confusing trying to do what's right for them. I will definitely wait on the rabies shot. Not sure what to do about fleas and heartworm. I didn't grow up in Texas, I grew up in Michigan where you also didn't have to worry year round about the fleas. I'm really not sure how the fleas are out here in my area. I'll have to start asking around. I don't have any friends with dogs in my immediate area.

So, if you don't use flea prevention, what do you do to treat it if they do get fleas and then what do you do to keep the fleas away? Also, for heartworm, if you don't have them on prevention for that, how often do you need to test for it?
I know! It's so confusing! Actaully in that book, there is a quiz in the beginning testing your knowledge as a pawrent and I failed it the first time! Literally failed! lol...I haven't had to treat for fleas ever because my dogs are usually in doors and only outdoors when we are out with them. However I have read great reviews on Natural Chemistry DE Flea Pet and Bedding spray and it's available at petco, but I'm sure if you search through this forum you can find more info on flea treatments. I have also heard they make all natural flea collars but again I'm not sure how effective they are.

I test for heartworm once a year at my annual checkup. So when we go for our annual checkup, they get a physical exam, heartworm test, CBC (complete blood cell count to check for anemias, infection, blood related disorders), BMP (looks at renal function, liver function), and then Lola gets a dental bc she has bad teeth. Every 5 years at the annual check up, we will do titers, I've only had them done once so far.

I am not sure how prevalent heartworm is in Texas, but I'm sure you can google a statistic. If you do decide to give heartowrm prevention, you can give it every 45 days instead of every 30 days also. There are some regions where heartworm rates are really high so I would consider giving it if I lived in those areas. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
A couple questions from a new mom of an adult dog?

1. What should she get each year in terms of shots/vaccinations since she is four years old (under a limited vaccination plan)?

2. I give her Trifexis monthly (ingested pill for flea, heartworm and intestinal parasite presentation). I live in the hot muggy south.

3. Titer testing? All I know is the PetPlan insurance I got doesn't cover it.

Thank you for this information. I never knew any of this about vaccination. This is a great site!
Congratulatons on your new doggie!! I really recommend reading the book "Scared Poopless," it's a great intro to dog care and taught me a lot of what I know today. It addresses things like choosing the right food, vaccinations, titers, fleas, spaying/neutering, going through surgery, among other topics. There is a fun quiz in the beginning and I failed it initially while I thought I was doing everything right!

Since you just got her, I would recommend getting titer testing done. Titer testing is basically testing for antibodies in the blood to that particular vaccine. For example, when you get a vaccine, your body produces an autoimmune response thus forming these antibodies. If your titer is positive, then the antibodies are still there, so you do not need to vaccinate. Our bodies and (our pets) produce memory cells that stick around for a very long time (if not forever), which is why we do not need to revaccinate. So if you dog comes across parvo, her memory cells will fight it off because she already produced antibodies to it when she got vaccinated. If the titer is negative (hardly ever the case if they have been previously vaccinated) then you can go ahead and give the vaccine. I try to stay away from the all-in-one vaccines and use single-valent or bi-valent vaccines when available. I draw titers every 5 years for my crew, so while it is more expensive than vaccination, it's only done once every 5 years. Some people will only titer once in a lifetime and consider their pets immune for life as well.

Also, I have my dogs get blood work done every year at their annual checkup. My vet does a CBC (complete blood cell count) to check for autoimmune issues, infection, anemias, ect. We also get a CMP (complete metabolic panel) to look for any kidney or liver abnormalities.

I have heard of Trifexis, but since I do not give it, I do not know much about it. When I went to a vaccination/heartworm seminar, the vet did mention that some regions really need to use the prevention because of their weather conditions. He said it can be given every 45 days and not every 30 days, so you can give it less frequently.

I hope some of this info helps, I know it's a lot to take in! If you get a chance, order that book on amazon and check it out, I think you will really like it. There is also a website (truth4dogs.com and dogs4dogs.com) where you can read exerpts from the book for free too. Please feel free to ask me anything and I will try to help if I can!

Good luck!
 

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Great information. I know Lady was up to date in shots when I got her. She had just had a three year rabies shot. I did take her in for an exam. They tested for heartworm and who knows what else. Oh yes, a poop test which showed tapeworm which we treated. Tapeworm is the one type of intestional parasite Trifexis does not handle, figures! I knew she had something since I saw it in her poo! Again, this is a great thread. I have two totally indoor cats who I don't treat for fleas and they have never had a problem. This is another reason I want to keep Lady on preventative since she goes in and out with me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Same for us.

Each girl got their series of 3 puppy shots and a few months later 1 rabies shot. No "boosters".

They will get the 3 year rabies later this fall and titers from then on.

They are covered given that they received a dosage suitable also for a Bernese Mountain Dog and they are 3.3-4.0 pounds.
Isn't that crazy? U think they could come up with weight based doing by now!!
 
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