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This is kinda long and maybe in the wrong area but please help :] Thank you
<3 <3
Okay so I know pedigree is not a good food, HOWEVER, since Tequila was a puppy he has been picky over food. I have tried to buy him healthier foods and it always ended up being a waste of money. Since I have been having to change my ferrets from the crap their previous owners had them on to actual healthy food, I have learned many tricks on changing food and enticing picky eaters (My gib ferret, Mojito, wouldnt try new food to save his life!) so I have been looking, once again, into what would be the best for Tequila. Then the other night a miracle occured in my living room. I had moved my ferret cage into the living room and saw Tequila with the upper half of his body in the cage and his face in the food bowl. I am currently feeding EVO Cat to my ferrets because when you get into the nitty gritty ingredient anylization you discover that not only is it almost the exact same as the EVO Ferret- its actually better for ferrets than the ferret version because it has less carbs and more taurine.
So I sat and watched him thinking, maybe he is ready for a healthier food now. I mean he'll be five in feburary and maybe his body is craving more. So I set out into the research of pet food once again and have narrowed the kibble ideas down to ZiwiPeak and Evo Red Meat little bites.
Heres the thing- my female, Kahlua, was severly neglected when she came to me, she (unlike most ferrets) will eat ANYTHING at every opportunity. She will gobble up some Pedigree like you wont believe. I have to keep Tequila's current food off the floor while the ferrets are out (so for about 4-6 hours out of the day) I know most people and vets will say not to let your dog graze but Tequila doesn't over eat, ever. Sometimes his food will stay full for days at a time, so I guess picking the food up off the floor isnt too bad for him but I still don't like the idea of him being foodless for 4-6 hours. So I want to get a food for him that will not hurt the ferrets if they eat it.

Evo has 15% carbs in their dog food. Carbs are no good for ferrets, they are actually insanely bad, so the less in their diet the better. BUT Evo has significantly more fat and protien than ZiwiPeak.

ZiwiPeak will not especially help or hurt the ferrets, however, it has less protein and fat. I would like to see Tequila on a higher protien/fat diet because I feel it would be overall better for him as I have seen his muscle mass decrease in the past year- which worried me.

So just out of curiousity- Which would you choose? I am sort of leaning toward the ZiwiPeak since it wont effect the ferrets regular diet at all if they happen to eat it but then again I want to make sure Tequila is getting the absolute best. On DogFoodAnalysis.com Evo rates a 6 (the best) but unfortunately they haven't done a review on ZiwiPeak. There arent many ingredients and they appear to be grain free, though they don't list the amount of carbs in any of their foods so I am really not sure what is so great about it.

I know their is a testimonial from a ferret owner in Canada who says it helped with adrenal and insulinoma symptoms w/o meds so I am thinking it can't have too many carbs (insulinoma trigger) But anyway- What would you do?
 

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Here is a website with a review on BOTH foods! ;) Hope it helps...:
Dog Food Reviews | Dog Food Ratings

ETA: Also, I wanted to point out, the protein in EVO may not all be coming from meat sources necessarily. They could very well be coming from other ingredients. I only know what I have read from other's posts concerning this on here, so hopefully someone that has a better understanding of this will chime in! ;)
 

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They don't list carbs in Ziwi because there are none.

Ziwi models the correct ratios a raw fed wild dog might eat. I would definitely go with the Ziwi if you can.

Pedigree is like cancer waiting to happen, I'd skip it!
 

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I'd suggest Ziwi over Evo in a heartbeat.. EVEN FOR THE FERRETS!!!

The reason? Ferrets specifically don't need/use carbs, and just like in dogs it DOES harm them and cause issues in the long run. You'd actually need to feed LESS Ziwi than EVO to your ferts to make up for the carbs.. and altho it SAYS it has less fat/proitein, a lot of it is from the carbs/extras and is actually harming the ferts. :(

So again, I say Ziwi to all carnivores! And if the ferts need more fats, then start trying to give them raw hamburger.. mmmm, mine loved that. Altho, as you know, it took FOREVER to get them to eat the darn stuff.
 

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mine were on evo red meat but i have just ordered the zp i have heard nothing but great reviews for the zp! we can only special order it here so i have to wait until monday for it to come in but i am so excited haha
 

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We had to special order it too, but luckily our local petshop (Global Ryans) is very good about that. We got the venison dry, and lamb wet.

Just a note, for the ferts, I'd probably try both wet and dry. :) Wet would make it more stinky and palatable.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
We had to special order it too, but luckily our local petshop (Global Ryans) is very good about that. We got the venison dry, and lamb wet.

Just a note, for the ferts, I'd probably try both wet and dry. :) Wet would make it more stinky and palatable.
I don't mean to sound rude or offensive in any way because I sencirely don't mean to come off that way, but there is absolutely no way anyone will ever get me to change my mind on changing the ferrets to a complete ZiwiPeak diet, there just isnt enough fats/proteins in it and it has no Taurine.

After reading what everyone is saying though, I have decided ZiwiPeak will become Tequila's new food, which means that the ferrets will eat it at one point or another- lol. Being that it wont affect them in a bad way, it is exactally what I was looking for. Something that will give him what he needs nutritionally while being able to compliment, yet not alter in a bad way, their diet.
Also, I don't know if this is a typo or if you didn't read me right or maybe I'm not reading you right but this statement "LESS Ziwi than EVO to your ferts to make up for the carbs.. and altho it SAYS it has less fat/proitein, a lot of it is from the carbs/extras and is actually harming the ferts." just doesnt make sence. ZiwiPeak is the food that says it has less fat/protein which is one reason why I cant feed it as their total diet, also I don't want them to have carbs, thats one of my main concerns because carbs are one of the biggest insulinoma triggers. EVO DOG has 15% carbs which is a major con when I consider giving it to Tequila because if they happen to eat it they are getting more sugars in their system- however EVO CAT has only 7% carbs and that is what I currently feed them, not dog. I mix it with gravy and meat from BG 95% meat canned food (various flavors) after I get off of work. I actually just found out about Evanger's 100% meat and grainfree game meats (just found them yesterday, cant wait to buy them!) that I am tickled about and going to add to their diet, as well. So they are on a super high fat/protien diet which is good for them, especially Kahlua. Kahlua is special needs because she was so severly neglected by her previous owner. The vet told me I need to make sure she is always getting a high amount of taurine because she was malnurited by her previous owner (she is blinder than your average already poor-eye sight ferret) though she will never be able to see the same as a ferret who grew up in a healthy environment, it is especially necessary that she has taurine. Also, due to growing up malnuritied, she needs the extra fat and protien in EVO. I am so glad I got her when I did because a few more days with her previous owner and she would have been dead, plus nursing her back to health bonded us very strong and is such a rewarding experience for me. Anyway They currently get all kinds of fun raw and unseasoned grilled/boiled meat whenever I can as well as mashed eggs and much much more. If you ever get ferrets again, let me know I have some great tricks and tips to get them to try new foods and actually eat them :D
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Here is a website with a review on BOTH foods! ;) Hope it helps...:
Dog Food Reviews | Dog Food Ratings

ETA: Also, I wanted to point out, the protein in EVO may not all be coming from meat sources necessarily. They could very well be coming from other ingredients. I only know what I have read from other's posts concerning this on here, so hopefully someone that has a better understanding of this will chime in! ;)
Thanks for the link but unfortunately it only compares the Evo Dog :\ but it did have ZiwiPeak on there as a 5 (same as they list the evo dog) and dogfoodanalysis.com had the evo dog as a 6, therefore (since the site u listed doesn't go up to six) I would assume it would rank a six on the dogfoodanalysis.com site had they taken the time to anylize it, lol. I hope that made sence :p

Also, being a grain free kibble EVO depends more on the meats fat's and proteins in order to bind the kibble (binding the bits of kibble is what grains usually do, considering ziwipeak isnt a kibble they dont need to make it a point to explain that.) but they are able to use more protein and fat from the meat, I have done rigorous hours of research on where their protiens come from and although they do have veggies listed, the proteins aren't coming from the veggies- the veggies are simply used to push the food through the intestines. If feeding a raw/prey diet was possible for me then the bones, fur, feathers, etc. from the whole prey would do this.
I am not saying I wont let them have any of the ZiwiPeak- After reading all the responses I actually will go with the ZiwiPeak!
 

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They don't list carbs in Ziwi because there are none.

Ziwi models the correct ratios a raw fed wild dog might eat. I would definitely go with the Ziwi if you can.

Pedigree is like cancer waiting to happen, I'd skip it!


So happy to hear that there are no carbs, could you tell me exactally where you got that info, please? I may have missed something on the site but I have been going crazy trying to find it! I didn't want to go with the feeling of "well its healthy and theres no carbs listed so there must not be any" because I know from past research that, even though no carbs were directly listed in the ingredients there can be hidden carbs.

I know pedigree is aweful. My uncle is a huuuge dog guy! He has his own kennel where he (used to breed, not so much anymore but hes thinking about it again) and also boards and professionally trains. Anyyyway he is my go to guy when I need dog help fast, he is so smart and spends so much of his free time learning more- since day one, he has nagged me about pedigree. But thats what the breeder had been using to wean Tequila and thats what he always ate- refusing anything else. I used to get free samples of all kinds of natural/organic/holistic/etc diets and he wouldnt eat them at all. I was probably too soft about it with him in the past but from here on out I swear to change his food weather he likes it or not! And considering what he did in the living room the other day, I think he will actually like it lol :hello1:
 

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Kind of off topic, but have you tried Bob Church's chicken gravy for the ferrets? It's fantastic. It can be a nice bridge between kibble and raw or home cooked. I like it because you make it and know exactly what is in it. As for the BG 95% meat in cans, etc. you could do one better by giving the ferrets chicken hearts. They are very high in taurine and 100% meat, no carbs!! :) Cooking deteriorates taurine significantly which is why it has to be added back in as a supplement to the cat foods. But in raw form, it's perfect. ;) I understand getting ferrets to transition to a new meat can be difficult, but it can be done and you sound like you already know a lot about that. Just thought I'd mention it.

Have you seen Church's research on kibble and insulinoma and teeth tartar? It's pretty fascinating stuff!

As for Tequila, I'd vote ZiwiPeak hands down. :)
 

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We had to special order it too, but luckily our local petshop (Global Ryans) is very good about that. We got the venison dry, and lamb wet.

Just a note, for the ferts, I'd probably try both wet and dry. :) Wet would make it more stinky and palatable.
kelly I ordered from them too but they can't get canned here apparently so I got the venison & fish and the lamb! I did originally get the smack dehydrated but Baby-Love hates it she liked it at first but now won't touch it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Kind of off topic, but have you tried Bob Church's chicken gravy for the ferrets? It's fantastic. It can be a nice bridge between kibble and raw or home cooked. I like it because you make it and know exactly what is in it. As for the BG 95% meat in cans, etc. you could do one better by giving the ferrets chicken hearts. They are very high in taurine and 100% meat, no carbs!! :) Cooking deteriorates taurine significantly which is why it has to be added back in as a supplement to the cat foods. But in raw form, it's perfect. ;) I understand getting ferrets to transition to a new meat can be difficult, but it can be done and you sound like you already know a lot about that. Just thought I'd mention it.

Have you seen Church's research on kibble and insulinoma and teeth tartar? It's pretty fascinating stuff!

As for Tequila, I'd vote ZiwiPeak hands down. :)
Giirrrllll, yes! I love Bob Church!!! I would KILL for one day to pick his brain, I would DIE to work with him! Ohhh my goood, he is my idol- lol. I think he is fantastic and that he should be made the Saint of Ferrets. I'm sure you already knew I knew Mr. Church's work when I started ramblin on about insulinoma, but yes I have read his stuff on the teeth tarter, too. With Kahlua being special needs and, although I haven't mentioned this, a higher risk for insulinoma- being overly (my mom says obsessivly) concerned with her food is a must. Plus, when I brought Mojito home- although he was a heafty, healthy, happy boy who had just gotten a bath and a mani/pedi- he was hooked on Marshal's everything like a crackfiend. He had marshals food, treats--- EVEN pre-packaged marshals farm duck soup!!! He has been hard to break, its taken well over 6 months, but he has been broken- lol. Along the way I have helped a few friends get their adopted ferrets from bad shape to happy and healthy, one friend of mine keeps telling me (since I don't think i could make it through real vet school) that I should open a holisitc ferret care center, lmao. I told her maybe one day if I ever get to Bob-status.
Sadly, I work 8:30a-5p (dont get home till 6-6:30 sometimes even 7p) so anything that has to be cooked or prepared can only be given as a dietary suppliment/addition and/or treat right now (including raw because I don't want it to go bad while Im out) :[ If I had the ability to be home with them 24/7, I would love to have them on a raw/prey diet and use Mr. Church's gravies and soupies to top it off. Currently I do raw/gravy/soups as often as possible but imho, not often enough. I give Kahlua hearts, Mojito is still working on it. I have tons of tricks that I do to help him learn new things are foods and are yummy, he'll lick the hearts but not actually consume them. When I cook their real meat treats its mainly because it makes it more enticing (at least for Kahlua and sometimes for Mojito) and then they recognize it as food quicker and are more apt to eating it raw (another trick I learned is to grind up their kibble and sprinkle it on the food so it smells/tastes like their food. This works best with tiny peices- for some reason Mojito still isnt taking to the hearts with this trick so I am going to try the "cook it with a gravy or a soup" trick, like u said it brings down the taurine/nutrient amount buuut its just to help him recognize that it is infact food and not some strange foregin object I am trying to make him eat. LoL
I have decided that ZiwiPeak would be good for Tequila and the ferts because if they eat it, it isn't going to do anything to hurt them/take away from their current diet.
You sound like you know your way around a carpet shark, glad to see another ferret fan- do you have them atm (I'd love to see them)?

I really wish that I could do something like what Mr. Bob Church has done with his life, ferrets need more advocates in this world but I just don't know where I'd begin!

Thank you so much darlin ;}
 

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You are so welcome!! Ferrets are special little beasts and often quite misunderstood. It's good to see someone actually acknowledging their special needs and being concerned about what they are eating!! You are rare indeed. :)

We had two ferrets when my girls were small. Both were privately bred. However, even though I tried to stack the odds in my favor and feed holistically, do complete darkness for at least 10 hours, lots of enrichment activities - they still both lived out their lifespans to 6.5 and 7. I wish I could have had them longer. They were wonderful little guys.

It sounds like you are doing everything right and I commend you for getting out there and doing your research!!
 

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So happy to hear that there are no carbs, could you tell me exactally where you got that info, please? I may have missed something on the site but I have been going crazy trying to find it! I didn't want to go with the feeling of "well its healthy and theres no carbs listed so there must not be any" because I know from past research that, even though no carbs were directly listed in the ingredients there can be hidden carbs.

I know pedigree is aweful. My uncle is a huuuge dog guy! He has his own kennel where he (used to breed, not so much anymore but hes thinking about it again) and also boards and professionally trains. Anyyyway he is my go to guy when I need dog help fast, he is so smart and spends so much of his free time learning more- since day one, he has nagged me about pedigree. But thats what the breeder had been using to wean Tequila and thats what he always ate- refusing anything else. I used to get free samples of all kinds of natural/organic/holistic/etc diets and he wouldnt eat them at all. I was probably too soft about it with him in the past but from here on out I swear to change his food weather he likes it or not! And considering what he did in the living room the other day, I think he will actually like it lol :hello1:

You did miss something :) if you look at the ingredients of ziwi it's basically meat organs and vitamins and minerals no carbohydrates!!

Dogs don't get their energy from carbs it comes from the fat as you know. I feed a prey model raw diet as do a lot of people here a lot feed a mix dehydrated raw (which ziwi peak is) pre made raw and prey model.

There is no doubt about it ziwi is a better food than evo.. Ziwi hasn't been cooked and had all the nutrients burnt out of t and isn't laced with fats and chemicals to make them eat it, they basically get the ingredients together and dehydrate it!

You get all the benefits of a raw diet minus teeth cleaning and me tal stimulation
 

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You are so welcome!! Ferrets are special little beasts and often quite misunderstood. It's good to see someone actually acknowledging their special needs and being concerned about what they are eating!! You are rare indeed. :)

We had two ferrets when my girls were small. Both were privately bred. However, even though I tried to stack the odds in my favor and feed holistically, do complete darkness for at least 10 hours, lots of enrichment activities - they still both lived out their lifespans to 6.5 and 7. I wish I could have had them longer. They were wonderful little guys.

It sounds like you are doing everything right and I commend you for getting out there and doing your research!!
They most certainly are but they are so rewarding and such a joy. Each one of my lil furkids is a blessing to me, all as one and each one individually! <3
After Tequila I didn't think life could get any better, when I adopted the ferrets it was originally for him to have company since he was partially raised with ferts and he loved them so much. It sounds aweful but although I knew I would love them, I never knew I would love them the same as I love him (considering I raised him from puppyhood and adopted Kahlua at 2.5 y/o and Mojito at around 4 y/o. I just never thought I would have the same bond with them) Little by little though they grew on me and we bonded. I take special time out of my day for alone time with Tequila, a seperate alone time for each fert and alone time for the stray cat too and of course they all have together time as well (except the stray cat).
Thank you, I just hope someday I can use everything I have learned to help other people. I have seen 3 ferrets (other than Kahlua) that have been adopted from neglectful previous owners, I think part of the neglect comes from people simply not knowing what to do with ferts and not knowing who/where to look to for answeres. Albiet none of the others I have seen have been as bad off as Kahlua was, its still alarming. I understand that its a lot for people to sift though but I have ADHD along with a slew of other "Learning Disabilities" and I did it. Although I think its partially do the the "instant gratification" desire people have these days. Its quicker and easier for me to tell someone the condensed yet full of all the correct info verson rather than them going and doing the research themselves (I hope that makes sence).
The thought has crossed my mind a few times about going to Tequila's vet (who also happens to have a ferret surgon on call) to see if the surgon would want to get together with me and hold a class to help educate ferret owners on proper nutrition, care and ferret proofing (or maybe sponsor me so I can). I have never met the surgon myself but my baby sister has, when she was 13 she had a very ill little ferret named Mrs. Martini who had to have surgery (she had a birth defect in her throat that made it difficult/painful for her to eat).. unfortunately she didn't make it but my sister told me that the surgon was very caring, knowlegable and concerned and has ferrets of his own at home. I spend hours and HOURS a day researching everything I can, I even downloaded a 50 something dollar program to help me organize it all (yay for ADHD- My fiancee actually says the ferts are like mini-mes and if I had been native american they would to have had to add a ferret totem just for me, lol) It would be so great to share all of that with people who are willing to learn!

I too commend you for all the effort you put into your ferts health and care, I am sorry for your losses <3 Ferrets, as I'm sure you know, can live up to 10 years but living up to 10 years is rare, I hope and pray both of mine see 7 at least. You definately did right by them and you should be proud. I'm sure they are smiling down from the rainbow bridge and thanking you for the perfect life they lived, due to your efforts. <3
 
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